Cord gauge and length question

[MikeJ]

That does not make it legal. The general public is not entering construction sites. Section 520 of the NEC is very direct when it comes to this.

I Just have to mention that without looking up the actually LAW in the posters area, you are making an assumption that the cables are not allowed. Though you'r assumption will most often turn out to be correct, I personally find it best to do my research before posting, or at leas qualify my statement, by saying something like, "Most AHJs apply section 520.xx, etc, so these are likely not appropriate cables, but local codes do vary, because after all,
THE NEC IS NOT THE LAW. IT IS NOT A GOVERNMENT ENTITY."

 

[MikeJ]

From NEC section 520.68(A)(2):

(2) Stand Lamps. Listed, hard usage cord shall be permitted
to supply stand lamps where the cord is not subject to
physical damage and is protected by an overcurrent device
rated at not over 20 amperes.


Note that there is no length limit in this application of hard usage cord. In addition, I am not aware of a 10 foot limit on hard usage cord anywhere in article 520. We have a 20 foot limit for breakouts, a 3 foot limit for luminaire supply cords, adapters, and twofers. But no 10 foot limit.

ST

The OP stated the the cables were for "street light," likely a light on some sort of stand. Would this not fall in to the same category as the ghost light? or is this only applicable to a manufactured fixture using this cable?

 

[JD]

Saying the NEC is not the law is like saying the manufacturer of a traffic signal and it's timer is not the law, both statements in fact are true...
but....
Run a red light and you may get a very legal ticket. Don't follow the NEC and your AHJ may give you a very legal violation notice or shut the show down!
so...
It's best to not run red lights and a good thing to closely follow the NEC guides.

 

[Chris15]

Oh dear, the caps lock has come out...
Time for everyone to take some deep breaths lest we descend into a flame war that will see the thread promptly closed.

Let me remind everyone of Controlbooth's core values (http://www.controlbooth.com/faq/core-values.15/)

The cornerstone of our community is mutual respect between members. We pride ourselves in having a mature, civil, yet fun atmosphere where members are able to debate their differing opinions without resorting to flame wars. Our community enthusiastically welcomes new members, and we are always eager to offer helpful advice to both the novice and seasoned veteran alike.

Everyone is entitled to hold their own opinions, but please let's make sure we are civil about them...

 

[Footer]

I Just have to mention that without looking up the actually LAW in the posters area, you are making an assumption that the cables are not allowed. Though you'r assumption will most often turn out to be correct, I personally find it best to do my research before posting, or at leas qualify my statement, by saying something like, "Most AHJs apply section 520.xx, etc, so these are likely not appropriate cables, but local codes do vary, because after all,
THE NEC IS NOT THE LAW. IT IS NOT A GOVERNMENT ENTITY."

Well, the OP is in North Carolina which he has stated numerous times... and it is in his profile.... and they are still running on the 2011 NEC which has been adopted by their state fire marshal.

To see the list go here: https://www.nema.org/Technical/FieldReps/Documents/Combined-NEC-Adoption-Report-No-IRC.pdf

The majority of states have adopted the NEC as their electrical code. With that, just because the code may not apply if you are erecting a stage in the middle of a soybean field in unincorporated Illinois (where there is no state adoption) does not mean you should just ignore the code and fly care free. These codes exist for a reason.

With that, if you have an issue with the code (and it appears you do), you can always ask for it to be changed. Mr. Terry would love to have your input. http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/creating-propsals-for-the-2017-nec.35915/

 

[MikeJ]

Saying the NEC is not the law is like saying the manufacturer of a traffic signal and it's timer is not the law, both statements in fact are true...
but....
Run a red light and you may get a very legal ticket. Don't follow the NEC and your AHJ may give you a very legal violation notice or shut the show down!
so...
It's best to not run red lights and a good thing to closely follow the NEC guides.

That's not a good analogy. Let me give you a better one. In most states(probably all) you are required to stop at a red light, but in some states, motorcycles can drive through a red light after stopping, if there is no other traffic present. It is best to check your local laws before doing so.
Amusing that your limited experiences and knowledge are absolute, and undisputed fact, sets you up for a lifetime of failures.

Although the particular codes do apply to the original poster, other people may find that having all the information available, is useful in similar situations.

 

[MikeJ]

I have not at any point, recommended anyone to ignore codes. I don't have a problem with codes. I have a problem with people making incorrect inferences, assumptions, and proliferating the spread of incorrect information about the law and safety. That is all.

 

[Footer]

I have not at any point, recommended anyone to ignore codes. I don't have a problem with codes. I have a problem with people making incorrect inferences, assumptions, and proliferating the spread of incorrect information about the law and safety. That is all.

....I don't think there was a single incorrect inference on this entire thread....

Lets be real here. Have you ever seen anyone actually have 14/3 SOOW cable in a theatre or anywhere else for that matter? I'm sure you can get it, but no one would buy it.... especially in a hundred foot length and donate it to a theatre. On the flipside, tons of places sell 100' 14/3 orange extension cord. Tons of homeowners buy them to run Christmas lights and yard tools. My inference was dead on accurate. My quoting of the NEC as law was dead on accurate. We helped the OP out, he learned something new.

 

[gafftaper]

The NEC is like this sign. 20 MPH is not actually the speed limit in that area. It is the recommended maximum speed in order to safely negotiate the curves ahead. If you drive 25, you won't get a ticket. However if you drive the actual 35 MPH, the actual speed limit in that area, you might end up dead. A safe driver will acknowledge the recommendation and slow down. Is following that 20 MPH sign the law? No. Will someone who wants to be safe follow it? Yes.

As professional stage technicians we work in an incredibly dangerous environment. Working at heights, with high voltage, with heavy loads swinging over our heads, our loved ones call it crazy, we call it Tuesday. Our most important job as stage technicians is to identify the hazards which surround us and do everything we can to minimize them in order to keep ourselves, our crew, our cast, our audience, and our facility safe. Law or not, we follow the NEC, OSHA/State Occupational Safety Code, The Life Safety Code, Building Code, Local AHJ policy, etc to the best of our ability.

You can choose to ignore the NEC and buy all the orange extension cords you want, there's no law against it. Your AHJ may not come inspect for years and may never notice that you use them, you might get away with it for decades without any consequences. You could also buy that orange cable, plug it in and have it overheat, starting a fire which destroys the theater and injures or kills people inside. Choosing to buy an orange extension cord instead of an NEC approved cord is making a choice to increase the risk of fire and electrical shock in your theater. Yes it's only a tiny percentage risk increase, but it's not an acceptable choice for any professional stage technician to make. We don't cut corners on safety in order to save a few dollars. We make theater safer.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

The OP stated the the cables were for "street light," likely a light on some sort of stand. Would this not fall in to the same category as the ghost light? or is this only applicable to a manufactured fixture using this cable?

EDIT: according to @STEVETERRY, there is no difference of occupied vs unoccupied space. So quite clearly, if it is an extension cord on a stage, it needs to be S type extra hard usage cable.

When the OP mentioned street lamps, I pictured some sort of hanging affair. If they are ground supported, then all the more reason to use SOOW. Aside from the high heat of instruments, there are far more chances for cable wear on the ground than there are in the air.


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[TheaterEd]

The OP stated the the cables were for "street light," likely a light on some sort of stand. Would this not fall in to the same category as the ghost light? or is this only applicable to a manufactured fixture using this cable?

We have a 20 foot limit for breakouts, a 3 foot limit for luminaire supply cords, adapters, and twofers. But no 10 foot limit.
ST

Since the OP was talking about using extension cords, I believe there would be a limit to how long they can be. Also, he is trying to power fixtures used on an active stage as opposed to some place unoccupied, or without moving scenery.

 

[STEVETERRY]

Since the OP was talking about using extension cords, I believe there would be a limit to how long they can be. Also, he is trying to power fixtures used on an active stage as opposed to some place unoccupied, or without moving scenery.

If local AHJ's accept the rules of NEC section 520.68, there is no permissible length of extension cord that can use Hard Usage (also known as Junior Hard Service) cords of type SJ and derivatives. All extension cords must be Extra Hard Usage, type S and derivatives. The presence of people ("active stage" or "unoccupied") or moving scenery or lack thereof has no impact on this rule. If it's a theatre as defined by the scope of Article 520, section 520.68 applies.

BTW, if you would like to propose a change to this rule or other areas of the NEC, the next opportunity will be the 2020 NEC, with public inputs due approximately October 2017.

ST

 

[gafftapegreenia]

If local AHJ's accept the rules of NEC section 520.68, there is no permissible length of extension cord that can use Hard Usage (also known as Junior Hard Service) cords of type SJ and derivatives. All extension cords must be Extra Hard Usage, type S and derivatives. The presence of people ("active stage" or "unoccupied") or moving scenery or lack thereof has no impact on this rule. If it's a theatre as defined by the scope of Article 520, section 520.68 applies.

BTW, if you would like to propose a change to this rule or other areas of the NEC, the next opportunity will be the 2020 NEC, with public inputs due approximately October 2017.

ST

But if it were to be permanently wired to a fixture, such as a ghost light or practical street light fixture, it would be allowable? Is a practical instrument such as suspended pendant lamp considered a luminaire and thus subject to the 3' limit? Im just not clear on where this line is drawn.


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