New Elation Platinum Spot 5r or Used Mac 250's Robe 250AT etc?

[indigo7us]

Hi there,

This is my first post to this forum, so let me take a moment to introduce myself. My Name is Devin, and I'm the Sound and light tech for Seven Feathers Hotel and Casino, in Southern Oregon.

A quick background, I am a competent sound engineer, who has been over the last few years thrust into the lighting world as well. I am by no means an expert when it comes to lighting, but have learned bit by bit as time has gone by.

Our small showroom Is looking into upgrading a few lighting components over the next year or two, and I would like your advice on what direction you would go, given that we do not upgrade, or purchase new equipment very often. Please also keep in mind that we are in Southern Oregon and don't have great access to repair facilities, without shipping to Portland etc.

We are upgrading from four intellabeam 700hx, and will be purchasing 6 spot fixtures in the $2-3K range They will be permanently installed and not toured, and need to be suitably bright at a 15'-25' throw

We are considering new Elation Platinum spot 5r's or used Martin mac 250's, or used Robe colorspot 250AT, but would be open to other suggestions as well based on the above information.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Devin

 

[derekleffew]

Welcome, indigo7us, we hope you're gonna like it here.

As for "Elation Platinum spot 5R s," the reviews have been mixed, at best. See the threads
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...oving-lights-especially-platinum-spot-5r.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/26607-elation-platinum-spot-led-opinions.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...-versus-new-elation-platinum-spot-5r-pro.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...-250-krypton-vs-elation-platinum-spot-5r.html

As for "used Martin MAC 250 s," depends on whether you're talking Classic or Plus (10+ year-old designs), Entour, Krypton, or other.

or "used Robe colorspot 250AT s," no experience or opinion. But with used anything, much depends on how well the fixtures were maintained, and how they were used. By a little old lady who only drove them four hours a week at church on Sundays, or ten hours a night in a smoke-filled club in Las Vegas, or toured all over the country, in and out of roadcase s every day? Buy from a seller you trust, possibly one listed at Sources for Used Equipment - ControlBooth .

.

 

[ejsandstrom]

I weighed in on the previous thread about P5rs. They will work for what you are asking in this thread, but be ready to have a spare on hand and one in the shop from time to time.

 

[soundlight]

There's extensive documented cases all over the place against the PS5Rs. They seem to be a very hit and miss product - some will work fine and others will just have failures that keep repeating themselves. I had a batch of 6 for which 3 out of the 6 were bad. I've heard about and worked with many other problem units. I would not purchase PS5Rs.

I would recommend the Chauvet Q-Spot LED line of fixtures. I've heard lots of good things about them and have had excellent hands on experience with a rig of 20+ units in a night club. Only one issue since they were installed and that was a quick fix of replacing a tilt belt. I'd look at either the Q-Spot 560 LED or Q-Spot 460 LED. Great, affordable units that don't require you have a lamp budget for those discharge lamps that the moneybags don't ever want to pay for.

 

[indigo7us]

There's extensive documented cases all over the place against the PS5Rs. They seem to be a very hit and miss product - some will work fine and others will just have failures that keep repeating themselves. I had a batch of 6 for which 3 out of the 6 were bad. I've heard about and worked with many other problem units. I would not purchase PS5Rs.

I would recommend the Chauvet Q-Spot LED line of fixtures. I've heard lots of good things about them and have had excellent hands on experience with a rig of 20+ units in a night club. Only one issue since they were installed and that was a quick fix of replacing a tilt belt. I'd look at either the Q-Spot 560 LED or Q-Spot 460 LED. Great, affordable units that don't require you have a lamp budget for those discharge lamps that the moneybags don't ever want to pay for.

How is the brightness on the q-spot 560, compared with say a standard 250 watt lamp?

 

[soundlight]

We had the Q-Spot 560 up next to a Studio Spot 250 and the 560 was significantly brighter in my opinion. Probably around the output of a new 300 watt lamp, but don't expect it to be the output of a 575. (On that note, don't expect the Elation PS5R to be the output of a 575 either.)

I think that the 560s are a great fixture. I would swap some of the gobos - you can put standard metal gobos in the fixture so I'd swap out some of the less-than-stellar ones since Chauvet did a much worse job on the gobo selection for the 560 than on the recently-discontinued 260.

 

[bishopthomas]

I'm in at least one of those PS5R threads, definitely started one. Just don't....

I have a Chinese ML that's similar to the Q-Spot 260. I've never used the Chauvet, but if it's close to what I have I'll say the 260 is going to be a great bang for the buck moving light. I put mine up against a MAC250 Krypton and the Martin failed the brightness test. However, if you have bands coming in with riders to fill then MAC250's (any version) are a safe bet. Everyone knows them and can certainly make them work. I plan on buying some Vari-lite VL440's within the next 6 months, but those may be a little out of your budget. However, they have an impressive feature set (CMY, zoom, frost) that you will not find in the lesser expensive Martins.

 

[porkchop]

Scanners may or may not work in your situation but if they will you might look at the High End Systems Trackspot Bolt. It's just a little above the price range you mentioned but for a little extra money you would have a brand new fixture that has no lamp to be changed and runs on relatively little electricity so the casino would probably be saving money in the long run. They are close to if not a little brighter than your average 250 MSR lamp so it fits in with the brightness of the fixtures you've mentioned. I got to see these fixtures in person and they are really quick and really quiet.

 

[TimMiller]

Going from a 700 watt lamp to a 250 or 300 you will see some drop in brightness though the newer optics does make up for some of it. I second the trackspot bolt personally. Going with a used fixture is much like getting a used car. Yes it is cheaper but someone got rid of it for some reason, it may be age, not what riders are calling for, mechanical / electronic problems, or just inventory reduction. I have bought some used fixtures that are in great shape, others I have had to tear down and rebuild. Something to keep in mind is when a moving head fixture hits about 10 years old the wiring harness that runs from the base where all of the electronics are to the head where the motors and sensors are gets brittle and the wires start to break internally from flexing. I have also had to replace harnesses in mirrored fixtures just from the heat stress over the years. Most movers on the market are around 10 years old depending upon the fixture. If you have a little mechanical and electrical knowledge you can start to figure out how to repair movers. Also ask a lot of questions along the way.

 

[derekleffew]

Scanners may or may not work in your situation ...

... We are upgrading from four intellabeam 700hx, ...

Given the existing, I'd think a moving-mirror unit would be acceptable, but is a trackspot Bolt as bright as a 700W MSR I-Beam? I kinda doubt it.

 

[porkchop]

The Trackspot's are pretty bright but I would agree that they're probably not going to match the 700W MSR lamp. But they are a similar intensity to the three fixtures the OP asked about.

 

[len]

Given that you're upgrading from a very old product, I would guess that whatever needs to be pretty dependable. Given that, I would avoid a used product. Too many potential problems, unless you have convenient and/or cheap repair resources.

If you're just looking for a few new units, I'd go with a brand that keeps products for a decent run, which kind of rules out Elation and Chauvet. They both seem to like to release a ton of products every year, and then discontinue 99% of them because they don't sell. Having said that, Elation makes good quality products that I rent often. I never have issues with them.

From a feature standpoint, I've never been a fan of Elation gobos, but they do have a lot of other cool features you'd have to pay a lot more for from another brand.

If I were you, I'd call a seller (or two) and ask them for some demos. Surely, there's some retailer who is close enough to want to earn your business. Given that you're in a casino I'd think that vendors are knocking down your door every day.

 

[ship]

Don't get sold on the advertised 2,000 lamp hours of the MSD Platinum 5R lamp. Expect half working life before dim or LEER problem type and 1/3 really useful over a few hundred in the inventory on average. All I will say about it for now if lamp hours is the selling point for any fixture using this lamp... dissappointing in being "Normal" in any high output fixture these days with higher usage of the lamp that will be fairly useless at 600 thru what ever hours you replace it at before exploding or snowball. Over double the expected operating cost if a factor might be important for efficiency.

Don't do fixtures or design these days, just see the bad lamps while not working on other stuff. Just see the bad lamps to track and dispose of.