the dark side of entertainment

[dvsDave]

That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", after the fact, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring. It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.

I think you missed the point. @gafftaper was pointing out that there are often no outward visible signs. I have known two people who have committed suicide.

• One couldn't cope with the fact that he killed two of my other friends in a car accident. He committed suicide on the 10th anniversary of the accident, and he had a great support system, with caring parents, professional counseling, and friends who didn't abandon him. They ALL missed the signs that his depression had returned and it hit everyone hard.
• Another was a complete shock to everybody. He was the guy whose face you'd see next to the term "Happy Go-Lucky" in the dictionary. The worst part is that his note said it was hard to be happy go-lucky and yet he felt like he would never find love. Not a single person had ever even suspected or had a smidgen of an idea that he was unhappy, let alone depressed. He hid it from everyone so well, that he shocked EVERYONE when we got the news.

Please don't insult myself or anyone else by saying that claiming we had missed the signs is a "cop-out". Yes, being observant and willing to speak up is a good thing and to be encouraged. But the world is a messy and complex place and absolute's just don't exist when it comes to people and especially mental illness.

 

[josh88]

And some people won't talk, or can put up enough of a facade. My wife knows I'm down right now because of work and stress. Do my colleagues? I doubt it. With my class schedule I can find plenty of ways to avoid people and I can fake the smile and small talk like a champ. I'm still a mess inside, but my wife doesn't even know the extent because its another burden and stress on both of our lives so she's worried but can't do much. Am I suicidal? no. But this time each fall and when I'm spread to thin like I am, I feel like my primary job is staying upright and putting on the face of a happy well adjusted person who has their s#!t together. I see how it can spiral out of control pretty quickly if one thing starts to slip and fail.

So no, even the people closest to you won't be able to magically solve the problem. They may know something is off or not normal but even thats not always the case, and not for lack of being observant, caring people.

 

[mikeydoesstuff]

That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", after the fact, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring. It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.

I hope that some of these messages have improved your outlook, and I hope that you personally have people who are watching if and when you need it. I know I do, and I know I'm watching others.

 

[gafftaper]

My wife knows I'm down right now because of work and stress. Do my colleagues? I doubt it. With my class schedule I can find plenty of ways to avoid people and I can fake the smile and small talk like a champ. I'm still a mess inside, but my wife doesn't even know the extent because its another burden and stress on both of our lives so she's worried but can't do much. Am I suicidal? no. But this time each fall and when I'm spread to thin like I am, I feel like my primary job is staying upright and putting on the face of a happy well adjusted person who has their s#!t together. I see how it can spiral out of control pretty quickly if one thing starts to slip and fail.

This brings up a really good point. You can have a ton of stress on you and feel crushed, sad, lonely, wiped out, etc but not be the least bit suicidal. While stress is a trigger, the real weapon of destruction is the depression or mental illness itself. A person who is completely mentally and emotionally healthy can endure a HUGE amount of stress, feel themselves falling apart in all kinds of ways, but never feel suicidal. While on the other hand a person who is not mentally and emotionally healthy can be taken over the brink into suicidal thoughts by a comparatively small amount of stress in their life.

 

[Reggie]

I think you missed the point. @gafftaper was pointing out that there are often no outward visible signs. I have known two people who have committed suicide.

• One couldn't cope with the fact that he killed two of my other friends in a car accident. He committed suicide on the 10th anniversary of the accident, and he had a great support system, with caring parents, professional counseling, and friends who didn't abandon him. They ALL missed the signs that his depression had returned and it hit everyone hard.
• Another was a complete shock to everybody. He was the guy whose face you'd see next to the term "Happy Go-Lucky" in the dictionary. The worst part is that his note said it was hard to be happy go-lucky and yet he felt like he would never find love. Not a single person had ever even suspected or had a smidgen of an idea that he was unhappy, let alone depressed. He hid it from everyone so well, that he shocked EVERYONE when we got the news.

Please don't insult myself or anyone else by saying that claiming we had missed the signs is a "cop-out". Yes, being observant and willing to speak up is a good thing and to be encouraged. But the world is a messy and complex place and absolute's just don't exist when it comes to people and especially mental illness.

Just because some can hide the signs or put on a brave face, doesn't mean that we can't and shouldn't try and make a difference with our co-workers. It isn't all neatly wrapped up as one of the posters in this thread would make it out to be. Some people internalize all their feelings because those around them display all the sign of being too wrapped up in their own lives to care. You can chip away at the wall these people have built to hide themselves in. Been down that road with the death of a friend and co-worker. Saw others commit a slow death through alcohol, union had a help program, but insisted that they asked for it, rather than the other way around. Too little, too late.

 

[TheLightmaster]

This thread is cathartic, and I am glad that this is being discussed. Another point to make is that for some people, technical theatre is a way of coping with mental illness. Working together to create a transcendental experience can bring relief to someone who otherwise feels isolated and aimless. Given an affinity for artistry is often a double edged sword with creativity on one side and inner demons on the other, it is important for our community to have this discussion.

 

[MrsFooter]

That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", after the fact, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring. It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.

Something else to keep in mind. Very often when a person removes themselves from this world, you'll hear people close to them say after the fact something like, "But (s)he was doing so much better!" or "But I saw him/her a few days beforehand, and (s)he seemed so happy!" It's not uncommon for the person in trouble to be in good spirits in the space between when they've finally made the decision to take their own life and when they actually do it. That's because they know that the end is coming, and the personal torment that they're suffering will soon be over. They may feel a sense of calm that comes from making such a monumental decision and knowing that they won't have to suffer much longer. So even if a person is being watched closely, it's easy to mistake their suddenly calm smile for a sign that things are getting better and the need to worry is over, when the very opposite is true.

Never forget, depression is an altered state of mind. Even if you can identify it in someone else, you can't fix it, because your reality doesn't apply to their reality. Depression is a liar, and a very convincing one at that. You can tell someone over and over again that they're loved, that they're worthy, that they're bleeping Superman, and they can still feel like the biggest piece of crap in the world if their depression speaks louder and more forcefully than you. And it usually does. Depression makes you feel like you're not worthy of the love being piled on you, that these people are just taking pity on you or blowing smoke up your ass, and if these people only knew what a terrible person you are, they would never say those nice things to you. Depression. Lies.

And here's where I'm going to get a little brutal. To say, "Oh, well if I notice something in a co-worker I'll step in and save them," is narcissistic as crap. I suffer from depression from time to time, and I assure you, if it was as easy to combat as getting my co-workers to say nice things to me, I wouldn't spend so much money on therapy. Does that mean that you shouldn't say anything if you feel like someone is struggling? Absolutely not. Everyone's depression is a little different, and those kind words and support may be a moment of brightness that they can hang on to. But to say that co-workers, teachers, friends, etc are at fault when a person takes their life because they weren't, (may I quote,) "being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily," is to say that they were capable of saving that person and were too "self-centered" to do so. And that's not fair. A person can be in therapy, can have a loving spouse and family, and have friends telling them constantly that they're loved, and still feel unworthy of breath.

So yes, be supportive. Be observant. Reach out with a shoulder and an ear when you feel like someone is hurting. But also know that you can't fight their demons for them, and for some, the fight will be just too hard to win.

 

[lwinters630]

For the last 6 years I have been on stage at the high school theater when the students sit in a big circle before the last show of the year. The Seniors give a farewell speech, talking about how they were lost, alone and scared. How many considered taking there lives but when they joined the theater (actor's and tech) they found a family that cared.
We don't realize we make a difference in someone's life as simple as really asking how things are going, use their name, and show you care. These are big deposits into their self esteem bank. If you are only yelling, criticizing, or excluding them, you have made a huge withdrawal from that bank. So what will that lead to. $;;
So, unless you live on a deserted island, you can change a life for good.

As @MrsFooter said you can't fight their demonds for them. I say, For that I leave it to God.

 

[Reggie]

And here's where I'm going to get a little brutal. To say, "Oh, well if I notice something in a co-worker I'll step in and save them," is narcissistic as crap. I suffer from depression from time to time, and I assure you, if it was as easy to combat as getting my co-workers to say nice things to me, I wouldn't spend so much money on therapy. Does that mean that you shouldn't say anything if you feel like someone is struggling? Absolutely not. Everyone's depression is a little different, and those kind words and support may be a moment of brightness that they can hang on to. But to say that co-workers, teachers, friends, etc are at fault when a person takes their life because they weren't, (may I quote,) "being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily," is to say that they were capable of saving that person and were too "self-centered" to do so. And that's not fair. A person can be in therapy, can have a loving spouse and family, and have friends telling them constantly that they're loved, and still feel unworthy of breath.

So yes, be supportive. Be observant. Reach out with a shoulder and an ear when you feel like someone is hurting. But also know that you can't fight their demons for them, and for some, the fight will be just too hard to win.

That you can't save/help them all, doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Some will be in denial and rebuff any offers of help, some will not. You can't just blow it off and say it's a job for the company's mental heath line or their family or their doctor. Maybe you need to say something, if not to them, maybe other co-workers, union rep., family, etc. Yes, that is a risky path, but risk could have a great reward.

 

[billshut]

Those that blithely say, "Talk to somebody...", probably have never had any sessions with a "therapist". The amount of time and money spent talking about nothing and solving nothing before they allow you to discuss your real issues is staggering.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience.

That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", after the fact, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring.

I'm glad that you've never had to deal with losing someone in this way.

It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.

You make it sound like you are perfect and do this all the time.

That you can't save/help them all, doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Some will be in denial and rebuff any offers of help, some will not. You can't just blow it off and say it's a job for the company's mental heath line or their family or their doctor. Maybe you need to say something, if not to them, maybe other co-workers, union rep., family, etc. Yes, that is a risky path, but risk could have a great reward.

So are you saying that everyone should just assume that everyone else is struggling and reach out to them as if they are even though they may not actually be? While it can be kind of obvious for some people, it is true that others are really good at hiding it. The flip side is that some people, who have no issues, have bad days or weeks. That doesn't mean something is wrong. If I'm sulking around when I normally don't, sure, ask me if everything is okay, but if I tell you it is, don't keep prodding me looking for an answer that isn't there. If I tell you to bugger off, do it. Respect for others plays into this. Bugging someone may be what pushes them over the edge.

 

[josh88]

This already hit close to home when it came up originally. I'm definitely feeling it. It's been a really rough fall. I'm fine. I'm not going to do anything, but holy crap I don't know if its me or part of how our world works, but burning the candle at both ends happens more than I'd like and there's just no candle left. you live and you learn, but damn its been a rough few months, I've always been bad at saying no.

 

[What Rigger?]

This already hit close to home when it came up originally. I'm definitely feeling it. It's been a really rough fall. I'm fine. I'm not going to do anything, but holy crap I don't know if its me or part of how our world works, but burning the candle at both ends happens more than I'd like and there's just no candle left. you live and you learn, but damn its been a rough few months, I've always been bad at saying no.

I actually had my doctor (yes, my shrink) tell me I need to take more time off and even offered to write me a prescription for a week off once. Didn't take the prescription, but did take the hint and the week off. Going all the time is a hazard of my gig, because there's not 100's of people who do it. Can't staff a position 12 deep if there's only 4 people who are qualified for it. Saying yes too much is still a thing I work on a lot. But by continuing working on saying "No", I start to get better at it, and then I say it more and I start becoming a human again (as opposed to the Orc most folks say I get to being like when I'm burned out).

Say it with me Josh: "Sorry, no."

 

[josh88]

Say it with me Josh: "Sorry, no."

I've definitely gotten better over the years, but I've had a few scenarios recently that were too good to pass up. From a career perspective I'm glad I've done them, it'll pay off. BUT I realized that I've consistantly (by my own doing) worked myself ragged over the last near decade because I jump at new experiences and making new contacts and trying new stuff. The upside is I know I get a clean slate in about a year because my wife is going to grad school and we're moving back to the midwest so I'll get a chance to reset and change the pace for awhile.

Also I think I missed meeting up with you at USITT in Milwaukee by like an hour. So next time we're both in the same city I'll owe you a drink so we both take a little time off.