3 to 4 or 4 to 5 Pin Adapter

[LXPlot]

Hello and sorry for my general lack of understanding of electricity and data,

At my school, we have it set up so that essentially the only way to run moving lights is through an Apollo 4 pin output power source. At the moment, I'm interested in running accessories or Intels not built by Apollo, and I was wondering if the idea of a 4 to 3 or 5 to 4 Adapter might be electrically possible.

I know very well that on a 4 pin XLR 4 is used for phantom while 2 and 3 are used for data. However, considering that I do not need phantom for an Intel or LED light, I'm wondering if I could simply make and adapter leaving 4 (and 5 for 4to5) blank. If I understand correctly, this should act the same way as a 3 to 5 adapter works, and allow me to use 3 and 5 pin operations from the 4 pin power/data source.

If the reason I can't find one is that it isn't mathematically possible, we'll simply have to purchase a DMX splitter.

Thank you!

 

[xander]

3/5 pin XLR and 4 pin XLR units do not mix. 4 pin is used for accessories that require both low voltage power (usually 24VDC) and data. This includes ICues, scrollers, some dmx irises, some LEDs, etc. 3/5 pin units are only getting data on these cables and then receive power through a different cable. This is done because these units require higher voltages such as 120v or 208v. While, yes, in theory you could make an adapter and only connects the data+ and data-, that would be a really bad idea. If you have a unit that needs just data (3/5 pin XLR), there is most likely a data thru port on your PSU where you can continue your daisy chain of 3/5 pin cable. Or you can use another output from the board, or just add an optical splitter before your PSU.

-Tim

 

[xander]

Another note is that not all units that use 4-pin XLR are the same. The pin out can be different between different units. So, not everything that needs 4-pin cable is compatible with every PSU. But, it doesn't necessarily follow brands. Just because it is not Apollo doesn't mean it will not work on your Apollo PSU. You just have to be careful and look up the pin out. If you cannot figure it out yourself, let us know your specific and we can probably tell you, or I'm sure someone at Apollo would be happy to help you.

-Tim

 

[dramatech]

Another note is that not all units that use 4-pin XLR are the same. The pin out can be different between different units. So, not everything that needs 4-pin cable is compatible with every PSU. But, it doesn't necessarily follow brands. Just because it is not Apollo doesn't mean it will not work on your Apollo PSU. You just have to be careful and look up the pin out. If you cannot figure it out yourself, let us know your specific and we can probably tell you, or I'm sure someone at Apollo would be happy to help you.

-Tim

I use that type of adaptor quite frequently. In one case, I ran 5 pin DMX into a portable dimmer that was powering 4 PARNels, continued thru the feed thru to a Scroller power supply, the type that does not have a feed thru, and then adapted to 3 pin to run a LED instrument. On other occasions, I have run 4pin out of the last of five scrollers (4 pin-5 pin) to two Apollo right arms.

The trick is knowing exactly your system and all of it's components. For example, running any data from most of the early Wybron components could have a disastrous result as there is +24 VDC on pin 1 of the 4 pin which is ground on the 5 or 3 pin. Also Morpheus 4 pin has some unusual pin assignments that could be a problem. If you don't understand pin assignments of all your equipment, don't do it, and even then don't do it if there is some other option, such as splitters.

Tom Johnson

 

[derekleffew]

...I know very well that on a 4 pin XLR 4 is used for phantom while 2 and 3 are used for data. ...

Phantom power is a different thing, used by audio to power condenser microphones and active direct boxes.

I'm guessing you have the Apollo SmartPower 75W power supply,

which is one of the few DMX devices that does not have a "DMX Thru." The easiest solution is to simply put the Apollo PS at the end of the DMX chain. As I said, I can't think of another DMX device that doesn't provide for daisy-chain ing of additional devices. If this method requires too much DMX cable or isn't practical, use an opto-splitter such as the Enttec D-Split before the SmartPowerPS.

 

[LXPlot]

Actually, we have the 600W PSU which does have a passive 5-pin out...I'm not sure why people haven't done this before... Assuming we have a terminator lying around.

MNicolai: I suppose that's essentially what I'm going to try. I mean, I don't see why the PSU can't control scrollers while simultaneous being daisy-chained to LEDs. On the other hand, I'm far from being an expert or even having a decent handle on the subject, so, if that won't work, somebody please tell me.

On a related note, we really should get some actual DMX cables to that PSU rather than our barbed wire.

 

[MNicolai]

Actually, we have the 600W PSU which does have a passive 5-pin out...I'm not sure why people haven't done this before... Assuming we have a terminator lying around.

Err...you can strip each of your powered outputs of it's 24VDC and use them just for DMX data, just like you can use microphone cables for DMX, and like you can transmit DMX over barbed wired, and your idea will work just fine if you don't screw up the pin-out on the cables.

If I understand correctly what you're trying to do, you want to use your power supply as an opto-splitter?

 

[soundlight]

Since you have the 5-pin passthru on the power supply, you can use that to send DMX to your moving lights. Only use the 4-pin outputs for things like Scrollers, I-cues, rotators and DMX iris that take 4-pin data, and then only those accessories that have been advertised to work with the Apollo PSUs (for instance, some Wybron stuff isn't compatible, and you certainly don't want to use Color Kinetics devices on an Apollo PSU since the CK devices with 4-pin like CB12s are designed to each have a homerun.

If you do know the exact pinout and you don't have another option, you can make the adapters in question, but since it's good to do a loop-back to the power supply (though not necessary) you should probably use the DMX thru of your PSU.

 

[icewolf08]

As noted, aside from some of the low wattage PSUs like the SmartPower75, you should have a DMX pass through. While in theory it is possible to build an adapter that gives you data from the 4-pin line, you can't actually do this in practice. Unless you are using Wybron ColoRamIIs and a RAMII PSU, you should be making a loop out of the 4-pin cable. It should run like this: PSU>device>device>device>PSU. You shouldn't have an open end to attach an adapter to in the first place.

You might consider looking into some of the less expensive DMX splitters if you need multiple outputs.

 

[venuetech]

what i think the Noah is wanting to do is to just daisy chain all of his devices together

control>device>device>PSU>24vdevice>24vdevice(>)device>device>terminate

with (>) being the "adapter"

as Mike said

your idea will work just fine if you don't screw up the pin-out on the cables.

I hope Noah realizes that it is not recommended practice for a number of reasons. One such reason would be to protect the electronics of the other devices in the chain. A cable fault or mis wiring of the adapter could make a moving light/accessory into an expensive doorstop for the booth.
If you can afford moving lights/accessory, you can afford an opto-splitter to protect them.
the Entec D-Split would work. I think you can get it with both 3pin and 5pin splits.

 

[LXPlot]

I was actually planning on using it alone with some cheap LEDs for a concert. However, looking more closely at their specs I've realized that they put out nowhere near enough Lumens to be used from FOH.