Dolby Atmos

[macsound]

As I've been spending more time at home, I've been making audio soundscapes that I envision using in outdoor immersive environments.
Thinking more, and watching the Skywalker Sound seminar as part of AES last week got me thinking about surround and Dolby Atmos.

Is there a way that I could
1. Setup an audio system using a Mac and analog/ DIY/ non-licensed gear to playback surround or Atmos (surround +height) audio that plays from Qlab or VLC or other cheap/ easy software.
2. Mix surround or Atmos on software on my Mac, listen on stereo headphones and save a file that's easily played back from a single file on the above system.

Essentially, I'm imagining an outdoor space with a bunch of speakers and being able to assemble an immersive soundtrack to play on it. Mostly soft instrumental swells, bird and insect noise and wind type stuff.

 

[MRW Lights]

Well... sure. Before Dolby taught the computer how to do it we used to do surround sound by listening, math and A LOT of patching... so you could do that. I wouldn't actually say that the computer side of things makes it "easier", but it's a different way of thinking through how you bus your signal to your outputs and it certainly allows for smoother transitions and automation. All the atmos encoders really do is allow fine control of the parameters and a nearly "infinite" "control" of space...

that's not overly helpful I'm sure... but what do you have available to you that can accomplish your goal given the scope of your project? A dolby encoder might actually be cheaper/easier in the long run depending on your given scenario...

 

[MNicolai]

The New World Center in Miami has a large Meyer rig they do that with. The trick is getting the speakers high enough off the ground that they have a good ratio of near-to-far coverage. If the speakers are on tripod stands, you have serious issues with hotspotting and time alignment that will make it much harder to get a decent mix that everyone can hear.

As for preview, I would highly recommend any preproduction is done on a 5.1 or 7.1 setup in a padded room. Headphones are not a good representation of how the human ear and perception actually interprets and geolocates sound sources, and also will not accurately represent low-frequency sources common with surround sound mixes. There are proper surround headphones available but they not optimal for pre-production of something you plan on taking large scale. You may not think about it but a lot of how the brain interprets spatial imaging and geolocation has to do with both ears being able to hear the same sound -- but at slightly different timing and with different tonal response depending on which direction the sound is approaching your ear from.

This is described by an "HRTF" -- Head-Related Transfer Function. Miscellaneous silly photos below if you aren't familiar with this concept.

 

[RonHebbard]

The New World Center in Miami has a large Meyer rig they do that with. The trick is getting the speakers high enough off the ground that they have a good ratio of near-to-far coverage. If the speakers are on tripod stands, you have serious issues with hotspotting and time alignment that will make it much harder to get a decent mix that everyone can hear.

As for preview, I would highly recommend any preproduction is done on a 5.1 or 7.1 setup in a padded room. Headphones are not a good representation of how the human ear and perception actually interprets and geolocates sound sources, and also will not accurately represent low-frequency sources common with surround sound mixes. There are proper surround headphones available but they not optimal for pre-production of something you plan on taking large scale. You may not think about it but a lot of how the brain interprets spatial imaging and geolocation has to do with both ears being able to hear the same sound -- but at slightly different timing and with different tonal response depending on which direction the sound is approaching your ear from.

This is described by an "HRTF" -- Head-Related Transfer Function. Miscellaneous silly photos below if you aren't familiar with this concept.

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@Dionysus
Does UWO still have the (Possibly Beltone) hemi- anechoic chamber containing a globular array of 64 sources driven by 64 channels of QSC 8 channel amps via 64 outputs of BSS; or am I dating myself?

Per Spec's: The spherical array had to be capable of adjusting to: 1.5 / 2 & 2.5 Metre diameters.
I believe they gave up the 1.5.
The 2 Metre was possible although the 2.5 Metre was far more useful, yet somewhat more unwieldy to move in and out of the chamber

The department needed the array small enough to be capable of separating into 8 pie wedge towers each capable of being tilted back and rolled in / out for storage when the chamber was needed for other tests. 2 or 3. large diameter pneumatic tired hand carts afforded reasonably smooth transit across the mesh.
MaClean Media Systems installed it .

@macsound PLEASE note my Edit: I mispoke. The chamber was hemi-anechoic; no tensioned mesh floor. The floor was flat, firm, solid and with an elaborate colored graphic indicating 360 degrees in plan view with their desired 8 locations clearly marked.
The large diameter pneumatic tires on the hand carts were selected to preserve the colored graphic on the floor, NOT for their ability to traverse the tensioned wire floor.
Whip me. Beat me. Make me write bad cheques.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[Dionysus]

@Dionysus
Does UWO still have the (Possibly Beltone) hemi- anechoic chamber containing a globular array of 64 sources driven by 64 channels of QSC 8 channel amps via 64 outputs of BSS; or am I dating myself?

Per Spec's: The spherical array had to be capable of adjusting to: 1.5 / 2 & 2.5 Metre diameters.
I believe they gave up the 1.5.
The 2 Metre was possible although the 2.5 Metre was far more useful, yet somewhat more unwieldy to move in and out of the chamber

The department needed the array small enough to be capable of separating into 8 pie wedge towers each capable of being tilted back and rolled in / out for storage when the chamber was needed for other tests. 2 or 3. large diameter pneumatic tired hand carts afforded reasonably smooth transit across the mesh.
MaClean Media Systems installed it .

@macsound PLEASE note my Edit: I mispoke. The chamber was hemi-anechoic; no tensioned mesh floor. The floor was flat, firm, solid and with an elaborate colored graphic indicating 360 degrees in plan view with their desired 8 locations clearly marked.
The large diameter pneumatic tires on the hand carts were selected to preserve the colored graphic on the floor, NOT for their ability to traverse the tensioned wire floor.
Whip me. Beat me. Make me write bad cheques.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

@RonHebbard I have no idea. So much has changed there in the last few years. Kinda curious now myself.

 

[KyleJensenSound]

As I've been spending more time at home, I've been making audio soundscapes that I envision using in outdoor immersive environments.
Thinking more, and watching the Skywalker Sound seminar as part of AES last week got me thinking about surround and Dolby Atmos.

Is there a way that I could
1. Setup an audio system using a Mac and analog/ DIY/ non-licensed gear to playback surround or Atmos (surround +height) audio that plays from Qlab or VLC or other cheap/ easy software.
2. Mix surround or Atmos on software on my Mac, listen on stereo headphones and save a file that's easily played back from a single file on the above system.

Essentially, I'm imagining an outdoor space with a bunch of speakers and being able to assemble an immersive soundtrack to play on it. Mostly soft instrumental swells, bird and insect noise and wind type stuff.

So for QLab there's a tool that will kinda let you do this (albeit through pre-planned movements and not in 3D) called PanLab from Daniel Higgott. Effectively it allows you to record a sound's "movement" in a 2D plane and save it as a series of fade cues in QLab. MaxMSP or TouchOSC may also be something to look into if you want a great deal of live user-controlled parameters.

 

[macsound]

So for QLab there's a tool that will kinda let you do this (albeit through pre-planned movements and not in 3D) called PanLab from Daniel Higgott. Effectively it allows you to record a sound's "movement" in a 2D plane and save it as a series of fade cues in QLab. MaxMSP or TouchOSC may also be something to look into if you want a great deal of live user-controlled parameters.

I'll take a look at this plugin for Qlab.

Maybe I should ask a more simple question - How do I, in the most barebones of ways, mix in surround, save a surround file, playback a surround file?

With context - lets say I had 5 speakers and a subwoofer in my theatre. From home I wanted to make a simple sound effect of a bee buzzing around. I don't need anything accurate or complex, just a single stock sfx that I pan around the speakers, save the file, and at the theatre, play it back.

Some atmospheric stock audio from Apple Logic automatically changes the LR VU meters in the track to 5 little ones, I assume the file was mixed in surround of some sort... I want to do that manually.

 

[teqniqal]

Maybe I should ask a more simple question - How do I, in the most barebones of ways, mix in surround, save a surround file, playback a surround file?

With context - lets say I had 5 speakers and a subwoofer in my theatre. From home I wanted to make a simple sound effect of a bee buzzing around. I don't need anything accurate or complex, just a single stock sfx that I pan around the speakers, save the file, and at the theatre, play it back.

Some atmospheric stock audio from Apple Logic automatically changes the LR VU meters in the track to 5 little ones, I assume the file was mixed in surround of some sort... I want to do that manually.

Moving sound from speaker to speaker via volume control is only part of the solution. The mixing software for 3D sound simultaneously adjusts the time delay of the signal, too, to provide the audience's brain with spatial cues. Depending upon the DAW you have, you may be able to gang together the pan control with a signal delay control so one knob will make both adjustments across a range; or with a system of many speakers, like Atmos, to control many levels and many delays all with one knob. This is the 'secret sauce' in these purpose built DAW's for mixing 3D sound.

 

[macsound]

So here's an example of something I ran across by accident.
If I wanted to make something like this but with encoded 5.1 sound.

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Can you or how could I do you mix in surround using something simple like this as an example. Wind noise, occassional gate squeak, horse clop etc. Just as an example. Obviously wouldn't be on youtube.