I have $7000 ($6000 from boosters and $1000 from the drama club) to replace all 15 of our microphones, receivers, and transceivers. I was told that the Sennheiser EW112-G3 would be good, but I don't know that it has enough channels, or if the lav that it comes with would be any good. We were planning on just buying new elements for our TOA packs and receivers, but I'm worried that A) they are in the 700Mhz band, and B) when we do replace the packs and receivers, the new mics we bought for the TOA packs won't work anymore. This is why I'm trying to look at whole package deals. Anyone have any suggestions for 15 wireless packs, receivers, and a good lav for under $7000.
Wireless Getting New Microphones and Packs
- Thread startermfhettig
- Start date
You are absolutely right in that you should steer clear of th 700 MHz area. Any investment in that part of the spectrum will be money wasted. $7000 for 15 mics is a little on the low side when you begin to consider all of the important factors of a well designed wireless system. With that many mics you will need a frequency agile system, proper antenna combination / distribution, and proper frequency coordination for your specific location (just to name a few key considerations). Be sure to do your homework in this area and do not cheap out. Running that many wireless systems at once can snowball very quickly. It is always preferable to have fewer quality systems in a package that is well put together, than many systems that fall apart in a year or two.
You may want to look into the Shure SLX wireless systems with the WL93T mic elements. They are not the top of the line, but they are a decent mid grade option. We have had 16 in one of our venues for almost 5 years now and have been real pleased with them. I am not certain what current pricing is on them, but they are the closest product that I know of off the top of my head that I can vouch for by personal experience that will fit your budget (or come close). I am certain there are others though.
After a cursory look at their website, it looks as if the Sennheiser system you mention should be able to offer enough variety in frequencies to get 15 working systems with several alternative available frequencies to tune to in case "issues" develop. Looks like they are running about $600 unit not including antenna and power distribution, a rack, spare mic elements / transmitter, or anything like that, so they may be out of reach of your current budget. Certainly worth checking into though, you never know what pricing a dealer may be able to offer with a bigger purchase like this. Most manufacturer are offering rebate programs if you turn in a 700 MHz system and buy a new system from a dealer, so that will certainly help your cause if you act in time and the Toa systems qualify.
~Dave
You may want to look into the Shure SLX wireless systems with the WL93T mic elements. They are not the top of the line, but they are a decent mid grade option. We have had 16 in one of our venues for almost 5 years now and have been real pleased with them. I am not certain what current pricing is on them, but they are the closest product that I know of off the top of my head that I can vouch for by personal experience that will fit your budget (or come close). I am certain there are others though.
After a cursory look at their website, it looks as if the Sennheiser system you mention should be able to offer enough variety in frequencies to get 15 working systems with several alternative available frequencies to tune to in case "issues" develop. Looks like they are running about $600 unit not including antenna and power distribution, a rack, spare mic elements / transmitter, or anything like that, so they may be out of reach of your current budget. Certainly worth checking into though, you never know what pricing a dealer may be able to offer with a bigger purchase like this. Most manufacturer are offering rebate programs if you turn in a 700 MHz system and buy a new system from a dealer, so that will certainly help your cause if you act in time and the Toa systems qualify.
~Dave
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What is the general consensus on operating in the 700Mhz band? I know that it is not desirable, but I am not in a large downtown area (don't know if that has any effect on the interference we could encounter), and didn't want to have to spend the money on upgrading our packs and receivers. We have the TOA WM4310 packs and WT4810 receivers. They work fine, especially with the new countryman mics we were planning on buying for them. So would I be able to continue using these transceivers and receivers for a good while if the receivers are just off stage, only 50'? Also, does anyone know if Countryman mics designed for TOA (3.5mm) will also work with Sennheiser (also 3.5mm) should we decide to upgrade in a year or two?
MisterTim
Active Member
The general consensus is don't do it, period. Doesn't matter where you are, FCC says don't do it, so if you want to stay out of trouble, don't.
No. The sennheisers use special locking connectors, whereas the TOAs (at least our TOAs) use small-barrel 3.5mm minijacks. You could solder a new connector yourself, but on lav cables that takes some serious soldering skill.
Well, it sounds like you aren't worried about causing interference in the 700Mhz band, but you might be on the receiving end... that being said, it WILL be ILLEGAL to do so in the near future, so my vote is abandon the 700Mhz ship immediately... no more money into them.
If you are buying new elements, don't, and put the money toward the new system... you'll be able to get a better bang for your buck, instead of just wasting them (tbh, that's really what you'd be doing)
As far as which packs to get, I am a fan of the Sennheisers, but don't count the Shure's out...
That being said, it is important (as others have said) to determine the frequency need of your area, and work around that.
Hmm Thanks for the quick responses. I'm looking at the Audio Technica ATW-3110. I can get 14 of those (no mic) and 14 Countryman b3s within my budget. Any thoughts on this setup? It seems to have a lot of nice features, and be cheap. I found it for $335. 
Federal law, not just consensus, is that you must cease operation of wireless mic and IEM systems operating in the 698-806Mhz range as of June 12 of this year or even earlier if asked to by the FCC or if you interfere with an licensed services. In other words, continued operation in the 700MHz band starting a little over three months from now is prohibited by Federal legislation. And from what I hear, both enforcement of and fines for violations may be more aggressive than in the past.
On the A-T, is it the current AT-3110b model? What Band is it (D seems most likely)? How do you plan to address the antennas and power for 14 wireless systems?
Yea it's in band D. I think it is recent: AudioTechnica ATW-3110AD UHF Wireless Transmitter and Receiver Package Channel D - No Mic ATW-3110AD - SJ Media Systems
That's just a picture, but it appears to be the most recent. As for power and antennae, we have had no problem simpling plugging the receivers into the wall and using the built in antennae. Is this not standard practice? Thanks.
That's just a picture, but it appears to be the most recent. As for power and antennae, we have had no problem simpling plugging the receivers into the wall and using the built in antennae. Is this not standard practice? Thanks.
I have used the at 3000 series for the last four years in our high school productions and we have had no problems other then a busted battery door after a pack was kicked during a scene, which AT send the replacement part for free. We run twelve units with diversity antennae setup( highly reccomended).
We purchased them from northern sound and light Northern Sound & Light - NSL - Call Us 866-796-6232
current price is 290.90 for reciever and beltpack without mic. You have to have an account to see the lowest price. You can pay a $1 fee to get an account right away or you get one when you place your first order automatically.
They also carry Countryman but you have to call or email them for a quote on it.
We purchased them from northern sound and light Northern Sound & Light - NSL - Call Us 866-796-6232
current price is 290.90 for reciever and beltpack without mic. You have to have an account to see the lowest price. You can pay a $1 fee to get an account right away or you get one when you place your first order automatically.
They also carry Countryman but you have to call or email them for a quote on it.
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
I use Sennheiser wired and wireless mics almost exclusively (which is why I'm a dealer), so that would be my vote. Although, DaveySimps is correct: $7000 is not enough for even the lav system, much less the distro and rack and other paraphernalia. If you need Sennheiser pricing feel free to contact me (and I know there are others here that can help you out), but be prepared to spend significantly more than $7000 on a system of 15.
Just be aware that what Northern Sound is offering seems to be the new ATW-3110b while SJ Media appears to offering the previous ATW-3110a version. If all they will do is match price then why not get the current version? Also verify any other costs such as taxes, shipping, etc., sometimes the lowest item cost is not the lowest overall cost.
This approach works fine for one, two, or maybe even four recievers, but once you start getting a lot of recievers (15 is a lot) in a small space, they'll start to interfere with each other... if you were to space each reciever out along the stage, you'd be fine, but if you are sticking them all in a rack you'd want to get an antenna & power distro set up.
Now, the performance loss might not be as severe as I've made it out to be, but yea, distros are pretty helpful for large racks.
museav, I went through Full Compass and they matched the 3110B to the 290.90 price from Northern. Thanks for the heads up.
And Morpheus, while I don't think that is inside our budget, as I am right up against the $7000, I would be interested to see a link for what you're talking about for the future.
And Morpheus, while I don't think that is inside our budget, as I am right up against the $7000, I would be interested to see a link for what you're talking about for the future.
BillESC
Well-Known Member
The latest updated Audio Technica ATW3000's now offer 969 channels and two bands. Plenty to handle your needs.
Yeah--no its not standard for a high number of mics....you run a high risk of IMD--intermodulation issues and other interference developing from having so many mics without a distro system.... This happens often when you have multiple mics /antennas and so forth in close proximity--what happens in a nutshell is the transmitted/received frequencies when in close proximity can compound and harmonics can develop around those frequencies in several orders of magnitude which can break up or block and interfere with your other mics.
Best if possible--get an antenna distro whenever you go at or above 4 mics.... I think its the AEW 660D is the model for the splitter for your item--or the 550--depends on the Frequency....each antenna distro unit handles 4 recievers, and can be cascaded together for up to 12 units I think--not positive on AT gear. So you need a few of those plus a couple of directional antennas...you won't regret it but will if you get all this gear hooked up without them and have interference issues after...
my two cents...
-w
Noting that number of channels is in NO WAY an indication of number of concurrent channels possible...
As an example, Sennheiser EW100G3s have 1680 selectable frequencies but are capable of only 12 concurrent systems...
The number of channels is irrelevant - its marketing gobbledygook, like saying your speaker runs from from 20 Hz to 20 kHz without saying the tolorance (e.g., +/- 3 dB). Much more useful would be the bandwidth of the receiver (e.g., 25 MHz) and the channel step (e.g., 100 kHz).
Number of intermodulation-free channels is completely dependent on the local RF situation, and factors such as TV transmitters and other wireless systems will impact it. If your area is pretty clear, you can probably fit more than the manufacturer's recommended limit into a given band though. That said, if you can, split your systems across two bands. Not sure what AT's bands look like, but if this were Shure ULX I'd get them in both M1 (662-698 MHz) and J1 (500 something).
Be careful where you are using frequencies below 512 MHz. In larger Metro areas, one or more of the TV channels between 470 and 512 MHz are used for two-way radio systems for public safety (i.e., police and fire/rescue). Interference would be a very bad thing...
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