HDMI Switcher/Converter

[Call911]

Hey All,

I'm looking for a product that I'm not sure if anyone makes... I have a live view camera of my stage, and a Mac Mini for preshow annoucments. I need a device that can take the HDMI outs from both of those and use it as a switcher to send HDMI to the TV in our lobby. I also need the same device to convert the HDMI to composite video to feed SD tv's throughout our theater. Bonus points if the device can send two composite video feeds (one a direct feed from the camera, and one to mirror what's being sent to the lobby).

Currently I have about ten different devices doing all the switching/converting, but am starting to see some of the cheaper hardware fail. Would love one device that could do it all, and of quailty brand (we have Kramer baluns now for all our HD equipment now and it's great).

Any thoughts/suggestions, or other ways to go about this?

 

[wiscolighting]

Hmmmm... you are going to start with a switch for your Mac Mini and camera, if you can find a switcher with multiple outputs than you can send one to the TV in the lobby and one to the SD tvs, if not you will have to split the output of the switcher and take one and send it to the lobby TV and one to the SD tvs (which will require a HDMI to composite adapter).

HDMI Swithcher:
Amazon.com: Kinivo 301BN Premium 3 port High speed HDMI switch with IR wireless remote and AC Power adapter - supports 3D, 1080p: Electronics

HDMI Splitter:
Amazon.com: Sewell 2 Port 1x2 Powered Hdmi Splitter V 1.3b 3D Certified-Up to 1080p: Computers & Accessories

HDMI To Composite (Has Some Other Output Options As Well):
Amazon.com: Sanoxy HDMI to Composite/S-Video Converter 3RCA CRT TV CVBS: Electronics

These are only a few of the items I found on Amazon... a word of warning though you want to make sure you are using powered devices and not passive ones like this HDMI Splitter for example:
Amazon.com: HDMI 3-In 1-Out HDMI Auto Switch with 1.5 ft. Cable: Electronics
Especially in longer cable runs and ones that have been split video loss can occur if the signal is not amplified which can cause issues so caution against cheap unpowered gear.

Summarizing All Of The Above:

Output Of Mac and Camera -> HDMI Switcher -> Output Of HDMI Switcher-> HDMI Splitter -> Output One Of Splitter-> Lobby TV
Output Two Of Splitter-> HDMI To Composite Convertor -> Output Of Convertor -> SD TVs

Hope this helps... you may have to shop around a little more to find gear that will fit your rig better.

 

[museav]

Is any of the content potentially protected or encrypted? The Mac Mini can be a challenge as if it is connected to an HDCP-compliant HDMI input then it will enable HDCP all the time. That becomes a problem if you then try to go any non-compliant devices or create any non-compliant signals, see http://www.kramerelectronics.com/downloads/white-papers/integrate_macmini_4.pdf.

How do you plan to address formats and resolution? Do you plan to run everything at an SD resolution and 4:3 format and then pillarbox that on any 16:9 displays? Or would the camera and/or Mac Mini be run at HD resolutions and formats with that letterboxed on the SD displays?

I am getting very wary of HDMI converters. I am dealing with a situation right now where with two well known brands one box works and one doesn't and I am finding all sorts of 'undocumented features' such as one manufacturer now saying their box will not work if the input is DVI via and DVI-to-HDMI adapter rather than actual HDMI (which is not mentioned anywhere in the literature or manual). So I'd personally skip all the cheap stuff unless you are willing to experiment and have time to try things until you get something that works (and hope it keeps working).

And that segues into the question of the budget, how much do you have to spend on this? There are some products that might do exactly what you want in one box but they are going to be pretty costly. A lower cost option may be a 2x3 or larger HDMI matrix switcher with separate HDMI to composite converters for the two composite video signals, however that could also be where the Mac Mini may be a factor as if the matrix were HDCP compliant and the converters not HDCP compliant then you would never get any composite video signal from the Mac Mini.

Indirectly related, are you actually running regular HDMI from the camera and to the Lobby display? What are the distances from the camera and Mac Mini to where this device(s) would be located and from there to the HDMI Lobby display? I'm just wondering if some conversion to UTP/STP and routing that might not make some sense for some of the sources and destinations.

 

[wiscolighting]

Is any of the content potentially protected or encrypted? The Mac Mini can be a challenge as if it is connected to an HDCP-compliant HDMI input then it will enable HDCP all the time. That becomes a problem if you then try to go any non-compliant devices or create any non-compliant signals, see http://www.kramerelectronics.com/downloads/white-papers/integrate_macmini_4.pdf.

How do you plan to address formats and resolution? Do you plan to run everything at an SD resolution and 4:3 format and then pillarbox that on any 16:9 displays? Or would the camera and/or Mac Mini be run at HD resolutions and formats with that letterboxed on the SD displays?

I am getting very wary of HDMI converters. I am dealing with a situation right now where with two well known brands one box works and one doesn't and I am finding all sorts of 'undocumented features' such as one manufacturer now saying their box will not work if the input is DVI via and DVI-to-HDMI adapter rather than actual HDMI (which is not mentioned anywhere in the literature or manual). So I'd personally skip all the cheap stuff unless you are willing to experiment and have time to try things until you get something that works (and hope it keeps working).

And that segues into the question of the budget, how much do you have to spend on this? There are some products that might do exactly what you want in one box but they are going to be pretty costly. A lower cost option may be a 2x3 or larger HDMI matrix switcher with separate HDMI to composite converters for the two composite video signals, however that could also be where the Mac Mini may be a factor as if the matrix were HDCP compliant and the converters not HDCP compliant then you would never get any composite video signal from the Mac Mini.

Indirectly related, are you actually running regular HDMI from the camera and to the Lobby display? What are the distances from the camera and Mac Mini to where this device(s) would be located and from there to the HDMI Lobby display? I'm just wondering if some conversion to UTP/STP and routing that might not make some sense for some of the sources and destinations.

Ditto everything muse said... should have thought of that when I answered... this is why I don't do video! Its just too messy...

 

[Call911]

Current setup is as follows:

Sony HD camera HDMI Out > Kramer Balun, Kramer Balun > Video Switcher
Windows Laptop VGA Out > Video Switcher

Video Switcher HDMI Out > HDMI to Composite Converter (with HDMI Passthrough)
HDMI Passthrough > Kramer Balun, Kramer Balun > HDMI In on Lobby TV

Video Switcher Composite Out > Krama BNC DA > TV's throughout Controlbooth, Backstage, Greenroom, Offices, etc.


Upgrading the Windows Laptop to a Mac Mini (yes, I see this as an upgrade, others would disagree) throws an extra HDMI connection in there, and would rather not convert down to VGA.


New setup needs to be:
Sony HD Camera HDMI > New Video Switcher
Mac Mini HDMI Out > New Video Switcher

New Video Switcher HDMI Out to Kramer Balun to Lobby Tv
New Video Switcher Composite Out to Kramer BNC DA to Backstage TVs.


Right now the backstage TV's show a mirror image of what's in the lobby TV. This is by design, as we would like some of them to be a mirror, but it would be nice to have some fixed on the camera view (for example, the greenroom would be nice to keep on a live camera view, but the video booth display needs to be a mirror of the lobby to have a reference monitor).

Ideally I would like one device to do everything, but I don't think anyone makes such a device. It looks as if we are going to need an 2x2 HDMI matrix (or 4x4 to leave room for expansion), and 2 HDMI to composite converters.

Content on the Lobby TV right now is just PowerPoint of upcoming events, no food no drink, etc. Am looking to add in promotional videos to market upcoming events.

All the backstage TV's are not a priority for formating. They don't look pretty downconverted from HDMI, it is mainly as a reference tools just to have some form of Video in the backsatge areas.


Hopes this helps, any additional suggestions would be great!

 

[museav]

Ideally I would like one device to do everything, but I don't think anyone makes such a device. It looks as if we are going to need an 2x2 HDMI matrix (or 4x4 to leave room for expansion), and 2 HDMI to composite converters.

TV One Video Conversion Products. 32 slots and anywhere from 4x28 to 28x4 of just about anything in to just about anything out with up/down/cross conversion. If you have the budget, then yes, it exists.

 

[avaei]

You can try this HDMI matrix. It has 4 inputs and also has a local hdmi output, if you display is 15ft away and 2 cat6 outputs if your display is 100ft away.
The local output , you can connect using a standard HDMI cable. The distant display, you connect with 2, cat6 cables ( shielded cat 6 work best) and a small converter box that covert from cat6 back to HDMI.
We have one HDTV in our office lobby connected to this hdmi matrix over CAT 6to display current product promotions and news from computer and a second display in the break room.

 

[museav]

You can try this HDMI matrix. It has 4 inputs and also has a local hdmi output, if you display is 15ft away and 2 cat6 outputs if your display is 100ft away.
The local output , you can connect using a standard HDMI cable. The distant display, you connect with 2, cat6 cables ( shielded cat 6 work best) and a small converter box that covert from cat6 back to HDMI.

Interesting product but two comments. First, I can't find any reference to HDCP. If the device is not HDCP compliant then that may resolve the Mac Mini issue but would also mean getting no HD output where the devices or content want to see HDCP. If it is HDCP compliant then the Mac Mini issue may apply for the downconverted composite outputs. FWIW, the Mac Mini issue, which apparently is now also more common with other devices, has apparently become so prevalent that some manufacturers of matrix switchers with more advanced EDID management are also adding the capability to turn off HDCP for specific inputs, for example to turn off HDCP for a Mac Mini input but to leave it on for a Blu-Ray input.

The second comment gets into EDID. I noted the dip switch EDID setup but also noted that the supported internal EDID seemed limited to 480p, 720i/p and 1080i/p and that no common computer resolutions (e.g. 800x600, 1024x768, 1366x768, 1280x800, 1280x1024, 1440x1050, etc.) seem to be supported by the internal EDID. Apparently the only way to support computer resolutions is to have you create a custom EDID or to use Mode 2 that reads the EDID of the connected devices. But I am not clear how that works as the manual says "Read EDID of all monitors/receivers and set: Video=Minimum Resolution of devices connected." and it is not clear if that means it selects the maximum common format, all common formats or literally selects the lowest resolution possible. For example, if Device A supports 480p, 720p and 1080p while Device B supports only 480p and 720p would Mode 2 program the EDID for 480p, 720p or both?

On a lesser note, you might want to update the manual and serial command support file as both the manual and serial control files shown do not indicate reference any feedback or status functionality. You apparently added serial control feedback and status capability and that is good as for some applications that is critical, but you have to download a separate .zip support file and look at the included .xls file to find that it is even possible.

 

[Call911]

Thanks guys. Never found a major product (less then 30k) so we're using a regular 4x4 HDMI matrix and stand alone hdmi>composite converters.