How do you bid/estimate projects?

[ajb]

I've always used a spreadsheet I've developed for this purpose, but as I've added more and more functionality to it, it's starting to outgrow Excel. It basically allows me to enter a list of prices from various vendors for various materials on one sheet, tallies of material quantities for various components of the project on another, and then uses lots of VLOOKUP() and OFFSET() to combine the data into total costs, which are then summarized with PivotTables. When it works, it works wonderfully, but as I've added more features the spreadsheet has gotten more complex, and I have to spend more and more time repairing havoc wreaked by Excel's 'help', which is itself grows more insidious as complexity increases. There are also intrinsic limits to how you can interact with data in Excel--particularly via PivotTables--that make implementing certain desired functions kludge-y or downright impossible.

So I'm wondering what other solutions are out there. I see lots of software aimed at large construction projects, but haven't located much else yet. Anyone have any nifty software solutions to recommend? Or do you do it by hand or in simpler spreadsheets?

 

[Footer]

For the show I am doing now I am doing spreadsheets. I do the "Yale" method with a seperate breakdown for each scenery element and final budget analysis for the entire show. Its a pain, but it works. I also have a few tabs that I can be a bit more sloppy with.

I have used Microsft Access in the past to do shows. It works really well but is a pain to get setup. I am looking into moving over to Filemaker have not sat down with it enough to learn the software.

There is also this...
Tech Planner : Home

 

[ArtistGeek]

As a Scenic Charge, I do a version of the Yale TD & P method. I break down each scenic unit, calculate the painted square footage, break the paint treatment into steps and then figure out what material is needed for each step, as well as the estimated hours of labor for each step. I do this in Excel.

 

[BrianWolfe]

No software. Just my boss and I estimate the amount of time it will take to complete a project, multiply by a figure representing the shop hour cost for that employee(based on employee wages with benefits and add a portion of shop operating cost) and add the cost of materials doubled. Add a little for profit.

 

[Footer]

The biggest thing for me is itemization. I like to be able to sit down in a production meeting and be able to lay out how much each item costs and why. That way, when we start talking cuts we can either cut an entire unit or make units smaller or with cheaper materials to cut costs.

 

[ajb]

I agree on the itemization. That's one thing I really like about the Excel solution--PivotTables give you lots of options for easily summarizing costs in various ways, so it's easy to look at a PivotTable report and say "we can save $X if we switch to OSB for this decking, or $Y if we have four columns instead of six on each side" etc.

I just spent some time playing with Tech Planner (thanks for the link, I knew there was something like that out there but couldn't find it), and I almost like it. It seems pretty slick and powerful, but it just plain takes too much clicking around to get everything entered. My spreadsheet may be ugly and a bit of a kludge, but it's still much faster than the Ajax interfaces on Tech Planner, both in the system response and the actual entering of data. Plus I was getting lots of errors when I added materials to the budget tree.

What exactly is meant by the "Yale method"?

 

[BrianWolfe]

The Yale method. Isn't that what George W Bush used to estimate the Iraq war?

 

[Footer]

What exactly is meant by the "Yale method"?

There is a text used by every TD student at Yale School of Drama. Its called A production Planning Handbook. It was written in 1990 as a thesis project. It lays out how to go through an entire production process line by line, including paperwork and all that fun stuff. It just one of the "yaley" ways of doing things. Ask any yaley TD "How long does it take to carve a buddha?" and they should be able to tell you based on this book.

The process is similar to anywhere else theatre is taught, Yale just tends to write everything down. It does need to be updated based on new software and database technology, but it does the job for me.

 

[ajb]

The Yale method. Isn't that what George W Bush used to estimate the Iraq war?

If that's the case, then it's imperative I find a copy of the text so that I can do the exact opposite of whatever it says!

In all seriousness, though, I'd be curious to read it, but being in the Mid-Atlantic and unaffiliated with Yale in any way I don't see an easy way to achieve that.

 

[ArtistGeek]

There has been some updating to the Yale TD & P method in recent years--I heard there was an updated version at a seminar at USITT last year or the year before.

The Yale method is thorough and laid out in such a way that I find it is easier to show a designer or director how much a treatment will cost per step in the process on paper--"The texture treatment on this piece will be X and therefore half of our paint budget. We have to lose the texture if you want the rest of your show to be painted."