Rigging Question

[gafftaper]

The school district's risk management department would shut this down for sure... IF they fully understand the danger. Some districts are well informed on rigging and some are not. There was a recent thread about a production of Peter Pan where the district said they couldn't fly students even WITH the services of a professional flying company.

I have to admit that 10+ years ago when I was a young and dumb T.D. I did something similar to this. Thank God, no one was injured. Fortunately I was smart enough to rig it in a little safer way than you describe, but not by much (It still involved flying an actor 8' in the air). No one at the school ever questioned the safety of it. My entire administration saw the show and said it was fabulous. Parents said it was a great effect. Everyone who should have said, "you know that isn't a very good idea" instead told me I did a fabulous job. People just assume that you know how to do this sort of thing safely. And I assumed because my College T.D. flew a person on a swing, that I knew how to do it safely. Looking back on it what we did in college wasn't very smart either.

The point is these things build momentum. It's hard for your T.D. to stop and think this over clearly and consider the forces he is applying to a system in a way it's not designed to work. Everyone's expecting something great. Now he's got "a kid" telling him what he is doing is a bad idea. Let's face it Michael, if you hadn't been hanging out around here for so long you would probably think it's a good idea too. So It's really hard to slow this down.

Any chance of getting your T.D. to read this thread?

 

[waynehoskins]

Looking back on it what we did in college wasn't very smart either.

Ah, college. I have a few pictures of some things that never happened from back in college.

Thinking on the problem at hand now, it occurs to me that, though still not suitably safe, it would probably be less unsafe to use a hemp set in this case, where you could throw a second clew on there and put a second set of bags on when the actor enters the thing. Still not safe enough to do, but potentially less unsafe, because in theory you might actually be able to keep the thing moderately in balance.

 

[rochem]

Thinking on the problem at hand now, it occurs to me that, though still not suitably safe, it would probably be less unsafe to use a hemp set in this case, where you could throw a second clew on there and put a second set of bags on when the actor enters the thing. Still not safe enough to do, but potentially less unsafe, because in theory you might actually be able to keep the thing moderately in balance.

I actually just had an idea that was similar to this. Assuming we had the time to do this, what if the piece was weighted empty and then we attached sandbags to the batten that equal about 175 pounds. Then, immediately before the actor is supposed to enter, we put him in at max in trim, THEN remove the sandbags, and make the piece just slightly batten heavy. The end of the scene is intermission, so we would be able to re-attach the sandbags, THEN remove him from the basket, and the piece would stay in weight the whole time. This still isn't an ideal solution, but it might be better than just leaving this as it is. Of course, this is assuming that we would have the time to do this out of sight of the audience.

I was planning to print off some of the really good threads and show them to him, but again the problem comes up that there are no qualifications. Don't take offense to this, but since it's the internet, there's no way to truly tell someone's qualifications. Since I've been around a while, I've learned to just trust that certain people know their stuff about certain things, but how can an "outsider" know that Ship knows a thing or two about lamps, or that Whatrigger has used a fly system once or twice before? But we'll see what happens.

 

[derekleffew]

A counterweight fly system is NOT designed, nor does it have the requisite safety factors, for elevating other than inanimate objects.

 

[jwl868]

This still isn't an ideal solution, but it might be better than just leaving this as it is. Of course, this is assuming that we would have the time to do this out of sight of the audience.

A solution should be fail-safe. An error by an over-anxious actor or stage hand will be catastrophic. 175 lb runaway. What if a 150 lb stage hand tries to "save" the batten from rising?

Joe

 

[icewolf08]

You might try giving your TD copies of the news articles about the girl who was killed in a flying accident in her church christmas pageant (thread link). And then also give this article from Uncle Bill Sapsis. Yeah, it all comes from the intertubes, but you never know. I am willing to bet that if you show those articles to the actor and his parents it will also quickly sway them.

You might also consider getting the director involved or the department head. While they may not understand everything, they certainly can understand what is safe and what isn't.

Also, you might try contacting some of the companies like Flying by Foy or ZFX, I bet they would be happy to talk to your TD about what a bad idea this is.

 

[waynehoskins]

A solution should be fail-safe. An error by an over-anxious actor or stage hand will be catastrophic. 175 lb runaway. What if a 150 lb stage hand tries to "save" the batten from rising?

Joe

Exactly. To be clear, my idea of using a hemp set is a very bad idea as well, just perchance an iota less bad than using an arbor. Well, actually worse, because if there's too much counterweight there's nothing like a rope lock that could keep it from flying out on its own if it were bag-heavy. Hmm. Both are very bad ideas, and that's even before you consider that you should only fly inanimate objects anyway.

 

[rochem]

Yea, that's what I assumed, thanks though. I've already received a response from one of the emails I sent, so I will be following up on that as well.

 

[willbb123]

Yea, that's what I assumed, thanks though. I've already received a response from one of the emails I sent, so I will be following up on that as well.

Can you post the emails? I am very interested to see what they say.

 

[derekleffew]

Can you post the emails? I am very interested to see what they say.

Posting confidential emails on a public forum is a serious breach of ethics. If you want to quote anonymous excerpts, rochem, I suppose that would be acceptable, although I'm not sure how beneficial.

 

[rochem]

Can you post the emails? I am very interested to see what they say.

It's really not much different than what's already been said in this thread. They just said that I was correct in my concerns, and that this should not under any circumstance be allowed to happen. They also offered to assist me in talking to my TD by writing a letter or calling him at school or something similar. Nothing too special.

 

[Dionysus]

Since when does a crow's nest float above a vessel?

Why not fly the basket down onto a solid platform (designed to look like a ship's mast) that is wheeled on or hidden behind a drape?
Then the platform takes the weight of the basket and the person.

You would need more support than this. You would need to be able to support the possible force applied by the arbour, load, everything.

My rigging teacher told me about doing a fly somewhat similar to this once (He was a trained professional of 30+ years.). I believe he used a sunday to aid the lock while the batton was secured in place, very securely mounted. BUT DO NOT TRY THIS YOURSELF.

 

[jml42691]

I hate to be the one to revive a dead thread, but out of curiosity, how did all of this work out?

 

[rochem]

I hate to be the one to revive a dead thread, but out of curiosity, how did all of this work out?

We ended up building the Crow's Nest on a platform which was elevated about 10 feet off of a wagon, then rolling the wagon on stage when it was needed. We simply ran out of space above the stage to hang it, so it was changed to a rolling piece.

 

[wfor]

It's really not much different than what's already been said in this thread. They just said that I was correct in my concerns, and that this should not under any circumstance be allowed to happen. They also offered to assist me in talking to my TD by writing a letter or calling him at school or something similar. Nothing too special.

Man- I really wanted to hear that phone call though.

 

[gafftaper]

Man- I really wanted to hear that phone call though.

From what we are learning in this thread it wouldn't have really mattered.

Bill Who!?!? This is High School, I don't have time for Safety!