Rigging Training

[peacefulone61]

I am Looking for suggestions for rigging training. I am a High School Tech Director. I know how to use the rigging I have currently. The school is going to upgrade the rigging over the next few years. However they expect me to do all the work for it. I would like to take some classes so the new rigging is safe. I have tried to convince them that this is work that should be done by licensed trained professionals. They feel that is why they have a tech director. Thank you for any help you can offer.

 

[shiben]

I am Looking for suggestions for rigging training. I am a High School Tech Director. I know how to use the rigging I have currently. The school is going to upgrade the rigging over the next few years. However they expect me to do all the work for it. I would like to take some classes so the new rigging is safe. I have tried to convince them that this is work that should be done by licensed trained professionals. They feel that is why they have a tech director. Thank you for any help you can offer.

MPowers will doubtless have some good reasons as well, but my reason is this: its not your job. Yours is to maintain the gear they have, and supervise the building of shows. Doubtless your insurance company will have a few more things to say on the matter. Ask them if they have consulted those people?

 

[Van]

At First I thought you were saying you were in Highschool and a TD and they wanted you to do this. Then I re-read it. I agree Wholeheartedly, and doubly with Shiben. This is not your job. This doesn't mean you are not a good TD this should in no way threaten your posistion. This is simply not you job. You can do routine maintainence and I applaud you efforts to get more training to be able to do routine maintainance correctly. I'm sure there are folks on here that can direct you to some great programs or individuals who can give you the training you seek but pleases feel free to PM me and I'll write a letter to your principal, school board or whomever for you. This is not something you can do alone, nor is it something you should be bogged down with.... unless you get the insurance, contractors license and they offer to pay you for doing the work during the summer.....
and it better be a lot of money.

 

[shiben]

At First I thought you were saying you were in Highschool and a TD and they wanted you to do this. Then I re-read it. I agree Wholeheartedly, and doubly with Shiben. This is not your job. This doesn't mean you are not a good TD this should in no way threaten your posistion. This is simply not you job. You can do routine maintainence and I applaud you efforts to get more training to be able to do routine maintainance correctly. I'm sure there are folks on here that can direct you to some great programs or individuals who can give you the training you seek but pleases feel free to PM me and I'll write a letter to your principal, school board or whomever for you. This is not something you can do alone, nor is it something you should be bogged down with.... unless you get the insurance, contractors license and they offer to pay you for doing the work during the summer.....
and it better be a lot of money.

And hopefully they pay your insurance as well. I feel like its a million dollars or some other disgustingly high amount of liability insurance you need to carry to be able to do that kind of work... One of the more rigging orientated pros on here would have more specific numbers. And I want to reinforce what Van said, this has nothing to do with you being good or bad at your job. And good of you to try and get training, but again: expensive insurance, way too much liability, and oh yeah, you have other work to do...

 

[Van]

And hopefully they pay your insurance as well. I feel like its a million dollars or some other disgustingly high amount of liability insurance you need to carry to be able to do that kind of work... ........

A one MIllion dollar Liability policy is actually the bare minimum that most places require you to have before you can rent space from them. Heck, I used to get a limited run liability policy for around $145 ! For a rigging company your looking at multi-million dollar Liability plans. One of the reasons it's so dang expensive.

 

[Footer]

It is possible to install your own linesets. While I was in High School, we installed 6 lines over the period that I was there. Students, myself included, under the direction of the TD did all the work. Since I have graduated they added another 10 lines filling their rail. So in the 15 years the building has been open they went from 3 electrics flying to a full rail, all with supervised student labor. Since, the system has been professionally inspected regularly and an issue has never been found.

That being said though, the TD of the High School I attended was a different breed then most. We were taught and allowed to do things that usually set off the sirens around here. If you have never installed a line, its not something you can really learn in a book. Getting the head block aligned, getting loft blocks aligned, and getting lines to fall square to the deck is not easy. There are tricks to doing it, but once again its nothing you are going to learn in a book.

In reality, they really are not going to save any money by just buying the parts and asking you to do the work. Instead, I would be more worried about time. A professional rigging company can come in with 5 guys and install a good number of linesets in a week. They know how to set the arbors, tension everything, and pull 5 lines at a time. They have the tools to quickly swag cable and do seamless pipes. They have the guys and tools to winch the head blocks to the grid (the most fun part....). You don't have these tools or this labor pool. It will take you months to do what they can do in a week. In the mean time, everything else you are supposed to be doing (building shows, teaching students, etc) goes on the wayside.

So, yes, it can be done, however unless you have done it before I would no try to do it yourself.

 

[MPowers]

There are several issues here. Job responsibility, skill level and knowledge of the proposed project, liability, Insurance, to name a few.

Job responsibility. None of us here can comment on that, it depends on your contract with the school and the job description that accompanied the contract. The responsibilities vary greatly from place to place. If your job description lists system maintenance and repair, then it is your job up to a point. What that point is, is a gray area that only the two parties can decide. If the job description only lists maintenance, then is is different, now the gray area is to define maintenance.

As to the skill and knowledge levels. I don't know your background, BA? BFA? MFA? no degree at all, 30 years as a rigger???? Probably not the latter or you would not be asking the question. If you have had stage craft/rigging classes at the grad level, you have the knowledge needed but, judging from your post, not the experience. If you are just an average TD you have more than enough skill level, but again not the experience. The main thing experience (on-the-job training) gives you is learning the efficient ways to do a job, the correct order to do it in and things to watch out for from your workers. I feel confident you could replace a lineset. Quickly? probably not. Efficiently? Again, probably not, especially the first one or two. Possible problems or things to look for are the biggest possible weak points. Things like proper crimps on an oval sleeve (right tool for right sleeve, # of crimps for the tool, proper torque for wire rope clips, knowing to re-torque them after the first loading or first 30 days, what rigging hardware to use for a specific job, etc.)

Liability. In 99.9% of educational institutions, if they require you to perform a job as part of your official duties, they are the liable party and they are responsible for insurance. If you work for a rigging company as an employee, same answer. If you work as a jobber (IA or not) or freelancer, THEN you are the liable party and must carry the insurance.

Now in your case in particular, is it obvious you are very uncomfortable with the idea of doing the rigging. If it is indeed part of your job description, I suggest you discuss this with the PTB and see if they would consider hiring a rigger to supervise your first one or two line set up grades. In your area, Limelight would be one place to check to see if they would help with that. Also Check with Mike Katz the Technical Director at MIT and see if he has any classes this fall that you could monitor or possibility if he would be interested in working with you on a lineset replacement (here liability issues might force him to say no to you even though he would do it on his own stage).

HTH, if you have any more questions, ask!

 

[gafftaper]

I have split this thread for future search clarity. Posts regarding the flying of luan cutouts have been moved to a new thread titled Flying luan cutouts.

 

[tprewitt]

I have attended many many training seminars and classes, read a number of books, etc and can give you the names of the ones I've found most useful. In all cases, their value is always directly proportionate to the amount of hands on experience I've had with the subject matter. A seminar or class is a valuable part of the whole, but just a part. If you have experience installing rigging, a class can mean a lot. It will not prepare you for something you've never done.

A qualified person, as defined in most technical documents, is one with the knowledge, experience and authority to identify and correct any plausible issues. This is a relatively simple problem, are you comfortable in the roll as a qualified person? If not, you need someone else to be the qualified person.

Assuming the answer to that is, "not you":
If the institution expects you to install surely you'll also be expected, or permitted, to help develop the bid spec for the gear. JR Clancy, H&H, & Thern are all going to force it through a dealer, they won't sell to you direct; SECOA and Texas Scenic will, but they are dealer/manufacturer's so same difference - you're going to have to buy from a dealer. In the spec require the dealer to provide a 'qualified person', an ETCP rigger, to supervise; or at a minimum provide unlimited technical support and an ETCP to do a couple of inspections and a final sign off. Your going to need some rather expensive specialty tools too so might as well have them include the tools as rentals. Now, on the bid, ask they also provide an add/alternate option for a complete turn-key install.

If you don't comfortably meet the criteria as a competent person, and a 1 week training seminar isn't going to get you there, it's negligent of you to perform the roll - and that's on you, not the institution. (In the unlikely, but plausible, event an injury occurs the institution's lawyers will sell you down the river before they pour their morning coffee.) You have to have the right tools, or you simply can't do the job and renting is cheaper than buying. So all your doing here is insuring the spec results in a proper end product, which is all that anyone wants.

The hitch is, I'd be very surprised if anyone bids the base or if they do you'd be able to buy a ham sandwich with the difference between the installed vs the supervised price. The dealer won't know how much technical support you will require or how many trips they will have to make before they are comfortable signing off. They may have to sign off blindly trusting you did any punch items correctly, and they'll want money for taking that risk. This is a cost and liability quagmire for the dealer with no good way to estimate any of it. I suspect all the bidders will take the position, they'd rather bid the install tight, and hope to get the whole thing, or let someone else have the supervision/tool rental quagmire. (or they may get creative and write in a qualification to the supervision, which should get the bid rejected.) Either way you get what you need. If someone bids low on the supervision, you get the help & tools you need to do a good job. If everyone bids as I would expect, you get an installed price for the same as if you did it yourself.

Best of luck. Hope this may be of some use.

-ty