Altman 360Q with HPL lamp issues

[echnaret]

I recently received a decently sized shipment of Altman 360Q fixtures with HPL 750 lamps (don't ask). When my designer put in a cut of R3202 with two pieces L269 of heat shield, the R3202 burned through in under 30 seconds. We checked the field, and it looked as flat as we could get it. Short of un-bench focusing them to get a weak center, does anyone have any suggestions on how to get them to not kill gel?

Thanks in advance!

 

[theatricalmatt]

I recently received a decently sized shipment of Altman 360Q fixtures with HPL 750 lamps (don't ask). When my designer put in a cut of R3202 with two pieces L269 of heat shield, the R3202 burned through in under 30 seconds. We checked the field, and it looked as flat as we could get it. Short of un-bench focusing them to get a weak center, does anyone have any suggestions on how to get them to not kill gel?

Really, the only thing to do is re-lamp them with the correct lamp. The Altman lamp cap (or, more precisely, the TP-22 socket) accepts a number of different lamps, only some of which work correctly with the reflector and lens. You want to shift lamps to the HX-601 / FLK.

 

[techieman33]

You can run a GLC (575 watts) or a GLD (750 watts) in them and be ok. In the last couple of years altman has started selling a lot of fixtures that will accept an HPL lamp, so maybe someone thought they could just throw one in an older fixture and make it work?

 

[echnaret]

I feel like I should specify: these are not Altmans with TP-22 sockets. These are new Altmans (purchased a week ago) with some sort of HPL socket. While you can theoretically stick GL* lamps into said sockets, they would have no support outside of the pin sockets. While I could theoretically replace all sockets with TP-22 sockets, I feel that would be wasted time and money.

 

[Lsly]

I feel like I should specify: these are not Altmans with TP-22 sockets. These are new Altmans (purchased a week ago) with some sort of HPL socket. While you can theoretically stick GL* lamps into said sockets, they would have no support outside of the pin sockets. While I could theoretically replace all sockets with TP-22 sockets, I feel that would be wasted time and money.
View attachment 10858 View attachment 10859

Are the gels all in the same frame? If so that's the issue. Heat shield must be separate and hopefully not touching the color. Also it sounds like you have three colors in the fixtures, this can cause heat build up.
LS

 

[derekleffew]

... Short of un-bench focusing them to get a weak center, does anyone have any suggestions on how to get them to not kill gel?

... Heat shield must be separate and hopefully not touching the color. ...

Color extender. Heat shield in the back (nearest the lens), color in the front.

It's not the lamp's fault. HPL and GLx have the same filament geometry. I used to have the same problem with 6x9 and 6x12 when we put 1000W FEL s in them. Back then, we taped color to the front of top hat s. If you don't/can't use color extenders, try a different edge focus (softer), as right now all of the energy is concentrated in the center of the gel. Unlike newer ERS models, the reflector of a 360Q is Alzak aluminum and concentrates all energy, rather than dichroic cold mirror technology, which doesn't reflect the heat.

 

[BobHealey]

Really, the only thing to do is re-lamp them with the correct lamp. The Altman lamp cap (or, more precisely, the TP-22 socket) accepts a number of different lamps, only some of which work correctly with the reflector and lens. You want to shift lamps to the HX-601 / FLK.

One of my dealers is reluctant to sell me any conventional Altman product with a non-HPL socket. To point of recommending the HPL retrofit kits for my 65Q and 360Q collections, and replacement of 75Qs with HPL based 65Q or S4 Fresnels.

 

[Scenemaster60]

derekleffew is spot on with the best solution. When I up-lamped my 360Q 6x9s from 750 watt EHGs to 750 GLDs I had the same problem. The optics of the 360Q, especially the 6x9 (and the 4.5x6.5 is even worse), were just not designed to be gel-friendly with a lamp that puts that much light and heat through the front. I have 6" color extenders in all of my 6x9 360Qs that have 750 watt GLD lamps in them. When I down-lamp to the the GLA (575 watt, long life) I find I don't need the extenders except for really saturated colors.

If you can sacrifice the brightness, I think that you would find if you put the HPL 575/115x lamp in these fixtures that 90% of your problems would go away. That lamp is going to give you roughly the same amount of light and color temp. from the fixture as using an old-school 750 watt EHG would have.

 

[echnaret]

We solved this issue by sending the Altman 360Q's back and swapping them for Source4's. e_e The optics were also a little screwy, and it was difficult to get a hard clean edge, especially with gobos. There was also an issue with concentric rings.

While I would love to use top hats/color extenders (especially if I ever upgrade the lamps from EHG's), I have neither the space on the electrics nor the top hats, and no money in sight to buy them.

For those of you suggesting gels in two different color frames, does it really make much of a difference, especially considering the Altman color frame slots don't include a spacer a la the S4?

 

[Lsly]

We solved this issue by sending the Altman 360Q's back and swapping them for Source4's. e_e The optics were also a little screwy, and it was difficult to get a hard clean edge, especially with gobos. There was also an issue with concentric rings.

While I would love to use top hats/color extenders (especially if I ever upgrade the lamps from EHG's), I have neither the space on the electrics nor the top hats, and no money in sight to buy them.

For those of you suggesting gels in two different color frames, does it really make much of a difference, especially considering the Altman color frame slots don't include a spacer a la the S4?

You can combo colors all day. but if you put the heat shield in with the others then you have a issue. yes two frames even in the same slot.

 

[JChenault]

Unlike newer ERS models, the reflector of a 360Q is Alzak aluminum and concentrates all energy, rather than dichroic cold mirror technology, which doesn't reflect the heat.

Pedantic mode on:

I think you mean that Alzak reflects all energy, not concentrates. It is the shape of the reflector that causes the concentration, not the material.

 

[ship]

Wow!, what a great set of replies and interesting topic. Thanks in me also learning from the observations above. A shame the upgraded 360Q with HPL didn't work out for your situation as a different lamp cap animal I knew of but have not seen yet. But also that it was perhaps a more saturated gel than feasible even given your hard work on ensuring the problem wasn't the bench focus (and onto the S-4 bench focus that at times just won't bench focus no matter how you try - at least years ago for me.) Have not tried to focus a S-4 in quite a few years though. Above answers to that 360Q in accessories and why it was happening... thanks also. Though Alzak reflectors have been around since about 1928 ish', more that the improved ellipsoidal reflector if not all ellipsoidal reflectors are not dichroic ones in as above in too saturated of a gel or perhaps you found in solution; the heat isn't expelled thru the rear in the dichroic process.

Interested to know about the Rx [HASHTAG]#3202[/HASHTAG] use for it.