Calling all network wiring geeks

[BillConnerFASTC]

So new install and all network for lighting and maybe more. Existing and current new equipment is cat 5e and I believe that ethercon 5e and 6 connectors do not mate. So is there a good reason to install 5e connectors and 6 wire, looking down the road to upgrade? Is it possible to test and certify upon install that it performs to cat 6 standards? if trying to future proof should we really be installing cat 7 wire? I believe the thought is they might ship video on same wires.

Life was good with a passel of cinch jones and bundles of no 16's.

 

[Chris15]

Yeah, thanks for that work of Genius Neutrik...

Cat7 is not well enough defined at this stage to be thinking about in my opinion.
Cat6 is good for 10Gbps to 55 metres, Cat 6A is good to the full 100m at 10Gbps.

Crestron specifies 4K distribution as being 10Gbps, current HDBaseT, good to 1080p, is something like 8 Gbps.
I honestly cannot see you needing anything beyond 6A in the time between now and when the facility is longer used in the way it's been designed for.

If you want to be fairly future resistant, install single mode fibre.
If you want to be future proof, then the solution is much cheaper and simpler. Install empty conduit, and as much of it as you can - then when we know in 10, 20, 50 years time, what cable we need to support the contemporary technology, it can be purchased and installed...

 

[Footer]

I just pulled a dozen runs of Cat6A from FOH to stage in my larger space. I decided to not deal with ethercon and just go with standard RJ45 panels. I did not even relize that neutrik made a cat6 connector... and that thing looks really dumb.

My advice would be to pull the best cable you can at this point. I would pull a few runs of fiber if you have a really big space. Terminate the cable in whatever format you need. Odds are that even if you terminate with cat5e ends that it will test out to cat6 still. When I used to do this type of thing for a living (and Cat6 was a very new thing) we tested a lot of panels cat5e panels on cat6 and found that many would still give us full bandwidth on cat6. Most of those were wiremold connectors that are high quality to begin with.

Avoid the neutrik Cat6 connector for now. No one uses it. Use the cat5e ethercon, terminate it to cat6a. In the future you can always swap out the panels if need be.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Thanks. That was about our conclusion as well. 6a wire and 5e ethercons and hopefully most segments will be fine when/if they change to cat 6 connectors. Cat 6 or 5 wire is minor, 7 over 6 is major.

 

[StradivariusBone]

I'd have to +1 the extra conduit too. Nothing makes life more miserable for cable pulling than to find yourself throwing over a ceiling or trying to grease one more drop through a stuffed 2" piece of EMT. Even a few runs from the MDF to IDF or whatever distribution arrangement you have will make upgrading from copper to fiber or copper to better copper easier in the long run. It also makes expansion a lot easier, so long as someone leaves a pull-string.

 

[Floobydust]

You might find small value in the Cinch Jones connectors, since theyre probably not made anymore.
Sell them on Ebay and fund your cookie jar or something similar.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Indeed; pull-string, preferably with something on each end that is larger than the pipe opening.

And remember the first rule of cabling: copper (and conduit) are cheap; people are expensive. Put in more than you need, and remember that you may not be using it for ethernet...

 

[applstew]

So new install and all network for lighting and maybe more. Existing and current new equipment is cat 5e and I believe that ethercon 5e and 6 connectors do not mate. So is there a good reason to install 5e connectors and 6 wire, looking down the road to upgrade? Is it possible to test and certify upon install that it performs to cat 6 standards? if trying to future proof should we really be installing cat 7 wire? I believe the thought is they might ship video on same wires.

Life was good with a passel of cinch jones and bundles of no 16's.

Where I worked previously it was very common to crimp Crestron and Cat6 Cable with Cat5e connectors because of price. They tested out just fine for the DM signals we were sending to them. +1 on Pulling Cat6 cable and putting Cat6 grade connectors in at a later date. My guess is it will test and certify to Cat6 standards or come very close.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Do remember that the termination standards are tighter for Cat6, and you might need to leave over-sized service loops to make sure you have enough separator left.

 

[applstew]

+1 on always leaving service loops.

 

[kevlar557]

I just pulled a dozen runs of Cat6A from FOH to stage in my larger space. I decided to not deal with ethercon and just go with standard RJ45 panels. I did not even relize that neutrik made a cat6 connector... and that thing looks really dumb. ...
...Avoid the neutrik Cat6 connector for now. No one uses it. Use the cat5e ethercon, terminate it to cat6a. In the future you can always swap out the panels if need be.

Couldn't be more true. They're a PITA to terminate too, its not just a RJ45 in a carrier.

Definitely agree with going 6a. Put on those 5e connectors and upgrade them to the neutrik BS only if needed.

 

[AlexDonkle]

I recommend against CAT6a unless you absolutely need it. It is much more labor intensive to pull since unlike Cat6, 5e, etc. it cannot be pulled from a standard pull box and instead each cable must be pulled from a wheel. This is a PITA, in addition to the larger OD cable size and a much stricter bend radius that few contractors are familiar with yet. It's a waste of money honestly.

Fiber is the future, no question, but the equipment is still too expensive for most installs. By the time CAT6 is obsolete, fiber equipment will likely be more reasonably priced so it'll make sense to pull out the CAT6 and pull fiber at that point.

For video, the AVB standard will get rid of HDMI cables like VoIP technology got rid of POTS phone lines... very slowly. Even when AVB has been adopted, just like VoIP the best practice design standards will still revolve around keeping data, video, and VoIP traffic on separate switches with separate cabling to each device. It'll be possible to route everyone over a single cable, but never advised for good design.

 

[firewater88]

My theatre is just 10 years old and we have a large Cobranet network in the theatre. All the ethernet cable is Cat6 with Neutrik Cat5E D series ports throughout the theatre. I think there is around 100 runs to various locations all coming back to 5 switches (3 different networks) in a rack. They also included a bundle of the ethercon cables, but cut all the little locking tabs on the ethercon plug because they said they were getting hung up in the jack. I call BS, but it's a little late now. I use standard cat6 patch cables left over from the other network to go from wall to gear. All the regular computer network throughout the venue is also cat6. I believe the only cat5E in the building is the lighting network, but I could be wrong.

Getting time to upgrade the equipment and will be needing many more runs of ethernet to various locations that just were not put where they should have been. Most likely will be puling cat6 to all the new locations, but will leave room for future expansion.

+1 for always adding extra conduit all over the place. Now we will have to bore a lot of concrete to get runs where we need them. I wish I knew then what I know now and had them added in the design, but they really threw in a curve ball with the booth at the very back of the house instead of the original design mid house. At least they gave a "road show" area with connections that I use for everyday lights and sound and pull my gear for touring shows. The other problem was when they went to the digital snake system, they cut all copper runs everywhere... everywhere. I have no backup if the networked snake goes down. Still thinking of running a few small copper snakes from stage to FOH and from FOH to booth (where the amps are) in all this new conduit I now have to have put in.

I think I finally convinced our video guy to just run fiber from all remote cameras back to the video production studio instead of HD-SDI cable, ethernet and mic lines to all locations. Then he can just get a converter box at both ends for all the lines he needs. Besides, many of his runs ore very near 300' and can't push HD-SDI down some of the lines.

 

[Jbum123]

CAT6 is also 23AWG and CAT5E is 24 so you may have issues terminating 6 with 5E connectors.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Firewater: obviously if you have to pay to have a whole bunch of new conduit installed, make sure that it's large enough diameter, and that you have real pull ropes installed in it.

Sent from my SPH-L720