Control/Dimming Getting Nomad to talk to a Net2 network

Hi CB,

I'm hoping to use EOS software on my Mac in place of an aging console in our auditorium. Unfortunately, I had misidentified the lighting network as ETCNet3 on the basis of a device in the dimmer room advertising itself as a Net3 ACN gateway. Upon further investigation, it's running ETCNet2 firmware, and all our "nodes" are Net2 2-port gateways. Dimmers are Sensor+ with CEM+ control modules. Attempts to investigate their configuration were stymied by an IE6-only web interface - I don't believe there is a way of running IE6 anymore, aside from having a computer that was never upgraded, which I don't.

However, from the front panel, I have determined that they receive EDMX (Net2) input, as well as DMX. The DMX input is in "error" state unless the board in the booth is turned on and plugged into the DMX wall outlet, which leads me to conclude that it is a straight-through DMX cable between the booth and the dimmer rack.

When the board is instead connected to the lighting network via a Net2 Node, the CEM+ indicates that its DMX inputs are down but EDMX (Net2) stays online. This leads me to conclude that the Sensor+ rack sits on the Net2 network and speaks Net2 natively to the Net2 nodes.

It is something of a puzzler, then, what the Net3 ACN gateway is doing there. We think it might have something to do with the Unison house light/relay system. However, one of its DMX outputs is definitely running through conduit to the dimmer rack. So we're not sure what that's doing there. I'll see if I can find system documentation.
  1. It appears that if I brought the CEM+ units and the ACN gateway to latest firmware, they would speak Net3. Then EOS software (with the Nomad dongle, which we have) would be able to talk to them. Is that accurate?
  2. I have heard elsewhere on the forum that Net2 2-port nodes (of which I have 4 and only need 1) can be flashed with Pathport firmware so that they speak Net3. This would mean we wouldn't have to buy new Net3 nodes in order to continue using the console from outside the booth. It looks like Pathways isn't allowed to support or endorse this but multiple people say it's possible. I would do it by uploading Pathport firmware through ETC Network Configuration Editor.
There is also something that seems like kind of a silly/ugly hack, which might work, which is to covert the output of EOS software to DMX and then connect it to a Net2 node. This could be done using ETC Gadget, or (and I have tested the EOS->OLA side of this) through Open Lighting Architecture to a (much cheaper) Enttec Open DMX USB adapter, which Open Lighting Architecture claims to support.

We could also obviate the need for additional hardware by flashing one of our Net2 nodes with Pathport firmware and configuring it to do sACN->DMX translation, then connecting it via DMX to an unmodified Net2 node, effectively using it in place of a USB DMX adapter.

However, in both of these cases, somewhere in the room there is a really stupid assembly of Computer->Magic Box->DMX Cable->Magic Box->Ethernet. Is there some way I can configure my devices so that it all just happens in software?
 
Problem one is you cannot output sACN from your Mac running Nomad without a basic 256 dongle. Nomad will only run in mirror mode without a dongle.

Your read on the system seems all correct except that I'm wondering if the DMX signal from the older console is sending DMX to the Net3 node, which then possibly speaks Net2 to the CEM+ racks ?. Is this node connected to an Ethernet switch ? (it should be), are the racks on a switch ? (they should be as well, unless they are running plain DMX). How do the Net2 nodes talk to the system ?.

Once you have all this figured out and you acquire a dongle, then start simple and find out what the Net 3 node is doing. Maybe swap that with a Net 2 unit ?, assuming the Net 2 nodes have the same number of required ports as the Net3 unit and can function as a substitute.

Then re-configure the Net 3 device for Net3/sACN and use that to receive the output of the Mac plus Nomad w/ Dongle, to send DMX into a Net2 node.

And as BTW, my understanding of upgrading Net 2 Pathway 2 port nodes (not the 4 port ETC manufactured versions) to sACN is that A) ETC offers no support for this and B) Neither does Pathway. I've heard of it but I don't believe Pathway will tell you how and I've yet to read any advice from anyone who's done this.

I would also be contacting ETC to determine if the CEM+ units can be upgraded to sACN, which I believe is possible - EDIT:, belay that, to get CEM3 you need new CEM's plus a major re-working of the rack wiring. Its not a software upgrade. There's new software to access the CEM's - Concert, which the data sheet states allows configuring of CEM+ modules and works in a Win 7 or 8 environment.
 
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I do have a Nomad dongle.

Everything is on a POE switch. Dimmer racks, all the lighting network drops (where we plug in nodes), all the touch-panels, etc.

I believe the nodes communicate with the CEM+ units with straight Net2, as when running the board through a node, the CEM+ unit reports that its DMX port is "Error" while its EDMX port is working.

Good to know that the CEM+ units cannot be upgraded to Net3 compatibility. However, I am still hopeful that maybe they can be configured for DMX instead.

Now you've got me thinking more about the Net3 ACN gateway. It's a 4-port, of which 3 are connected, so I don't think we can easily substitute it out. However, I am at a loss for what it is doing, so I think I'll try peeking at its config with Net2 NCE. I also might try disconnecting it from network and observing what functionality is lost. Or possibly disabling specific ports to get a more fine-grained view.

In general, is this a good idea? If I plug it back in or restore its original configuration, everything should "just work" again, right? Or is there a danger of something not registering again? The hall has definitely bounced back from power outages before...

I do like the idea of using it to perform sACN->DMX translation to feed a Net2 node, but I don't know what its current function is, so I don't know how to replace it. Theories would be:

1) Translating DMX->Net2 for the benefit of Unison so that the board can control house lights when patched straight in to DMX. (In this case it would not be necessary if we always plugged the board in through a Net2 node, which is easy enough to do.)

2) Translating Net2->DMX out of Unison and into the dimmers so that our touchscreen/preset panels can control stage dimmers. I don't think the evidence supports this interpretation, as the dimmers and Unison both speak Net2 AFAIK and the dimmers report DMX status as "Error" when the board is not powered on.

3) ???
 
Thoughts:

1) I doesn't make any sense that the racks would not be Net2, thus I doubt the DMX into/out of the Net3 node is sending DMX to racks (how many racks in any case ?)

2) Given the system is all Net2, CEM+, etc... it's likely the Unison processor would also be a Net2 device and be a CMEi version and would thus have it's own Cat5 connection in the POE switch, unless it was an older version re-purposed and needs to send DMX, thus a node required to get the Unison DMX into Net2. The thought here is that as a Net2 processor, Unison can read any DMX present on Net2 and can that act upon that DMX for take-over, snapshot functions, etc... if that is what's going on in Unison. If it's only a DMX unit, then it needs to see the DMX for functionality, including maybe DMX to the racks ?. hard to say and hard to take a guess at this.

3) I'd be looking for a job number and contacting ETC for the installer to see if you can round up a set of as-installed plans to figure out how it's all layed out.

4) Given that there's a Net3 4 port gateway running in Net 2 tells you somewhat the age. ETC stopped offering the backwards compatible mode at some point and it would appear that the presence of this unit is possibly an add-on, as if they provided this unit, why are the Net2 2 porters not also Net3 versions. Possibly you were between time periods where CEM3 was not out, so the racks had to be Net2, the only 2 port nodes that were Net 2 compatible were the Pathway versions, as well the only 4 port was now the Net3 backwards compatible version. Drawings and specifications on the system would be enlightening as well as figuring out what
the 3 DMX cables on the Net3 node are doing.

5) As note, any Unison specific devices - button boxes, touch screens, etc... are not Net2/3 devices and are connected directly to the Unison processor. They use Cat5 cable as well as having power and ground, but they don't go thru the POE switch. Puzzled as to why the CEM+'s are reporting errors when console DMX is not present as one would expect that Unison is present.
 
Yeah, that's about what I thought. It's looking more and more like a "DMX gap" is going to be necessary somewhere, as much as I don't like the idea of it.

I'm probably going to try flashing a node with Pathport anyway, because I have several nodes that I don't need (and can afford to brick). Failing that, I'll do the OpenLightingArchitecture->Enttech USB adapter trick (functionally equivalent to a Gadget).

I'll be very happy if I can get a drawing out of ETC. That would make things a lot easier to reason about.
 
I believe CEM+ can be upgraded to receive both EDMX and sACN concurrently. Ask ETC Technical Services when you inquire about the drawings. I'm sure they will have some advice for your situation.

Good luck reprograming the nodes, please report back with the progress. I'm aware of OLA, but really, wouldn't something like this save time and headaches?
http://dmxking.com/artnetsacn/edmx1

-MH
 
I found the CEM+ Software Version 3.0.0 release notes, which appear to indicate that I can software upgrade my CEM+ modules to support concurrent EDMX and sACN. That's cool, as it gets me direct control of my stage dimmers. Still interested in how and whether I might get control of my house lights that way, but it's progress.
 
If your house lights are on dimmers receiving DMX from this system, then a Nomad/Client configuration, having sufficient addresses, will control those house dimmers, you just need to find the addresses.

Thanks to Mac for the CEM+ / sACN comment, I'd forgotten that.
 
This whole thread has got my head reeling. I have read and reread and the description of the system sounds way more convoluted than any system layout should be.

The biggest piece of information I feel like I am missing is what desk is the Nomad intended to replace?

Just a few other things that are bothering me about the original post. First, Sensor+ CEMs do not "talk" to gateways/nodes. They receive data from the console, and if supported, send dimmer feedback to the console. Second, if the Net3 gateway is correctly configured and running in net2 mode, AND you are correct that it has a DMX output to the dimmers, then the dimmers should always have at least one connected DMX signal no matter if the console is connected via network or hard DMX. Also, what are your Net2 gateways doing currently?

Where I would start is by sorting out what devices are actually connected what. Figure out what DMX lines run to what devices. Once there is a clear picture of the control topology, then figure out how to upgrade.

If the system is laid out with any kind of logic to it, making upgrades to support EOS should be easy. CEM software update using Updaterator should bring your racks into spec to be able to work with EOS. The Net3 Gateway you have should be able to be reconfigured back to Net3 operation using the GCE. As far as the old net2 hardware is concerned, if you can flash it with Pathport software, great, but I have no experience. Since it sounds like you already have hard DMX from booth to dimmers, you have backup in case of network failure (as long as you have a DMX output device for nomad). It also leave DMX lines for connection of other desks if needed.

The only question this leaves lingering is how the unison system is interfaced.
 
The desk is an Expression 3. We all know Ion and wish we had one, but it's financially out of the question. We purchased Nomad to get an Ion-like experience for keyboard-driven shows (cued in advance, effects-heavy, etc.) The Expression 3 would remain in place for less tech-heavy, more flexible shows that call for riding subs instead of writing cues and effects.

The Expression 3 was never networked directly; we plug its DMX Universe 1 into either the DMX wall plate in the booth or Net2 nodes that can be connected to Cat5 drops around the space.

I'm going back into the space tomorrow, so I will continue to investigate the dimmer room, try the Pathport firmware, and hopefully speak with ETC on Tuesday.
 
Got it working by flashing one of my nodes with Pathport and using that to do sACN->DMX into a normally functioning input node.

There is a weird loop in my dimmer closet now: Switch -> Hacked node doing sACN->DMX -> Normal Net2 input node -> Switch. This is... suboptimal, but we own 2 other Net2 nodes and have never used more than 1 at a time.

I will continue to follow up with ETC and see if we can get a less hack-y solution, but this works and is minimally invasive to the rest of the infrastructure.

I will post a brief writeup of the method I figured out for Pathport conversion, as it appears no instructions exist.
 
Only way to get less hacky is to update the CEM+'s to sACN.

Then it's Nomad/Latop w/ dongle sending sACN -> Switch -> CEM+'s in sACN mode.

Question though. Once you update the CEM+'s to sACN do they continue to listen to Net2 ?, as that will be required to run the Expression, unless you flash update that 2 port to sACN as well.
 
A CEM+ running any recent version of firmware can configure any or all dimmers to merge or prioritize input on any of DMX, EDMX, SACn, or rack presets. I'm not sure how recent but we've been working in this mode for a decade or so.
 
Oh a NICE hack !.

Going to look at this a bt further. Saves a ton on not having to buy replacements for 4 of my 2 porters.
 
Thoughts:



5) As note, any Unison specific devices - button boxes, touch screens, etc... are not Net2/3 devices and are connected directly to the Unison processor. They use Cat5 cable as well as having power and ground, but they don't go thru the POE switch. Puzzled as to why the CEM+'s are reporting errors when console DMX is not present as one would expect that Unison is present.

The Unison might be on a different DMX input than the console.

I've had some luck with IE 11 on Windows 7 in compatibility mode talking to the CEM+. Trying to remember exactly what I did to make it work. It either involved hitting F12 for the dev tools or monkeying with the compatibility tools. I won't be near a CEM+ again until next year though.
 
The Unison might be on a different DMX input than the console.

I've had some luck with IE 11 on Windows 7 in compatibility mode talking to the CEM+. Trying to remember exactly what I did to make it work. It either involved hitting F12 for the dev tools or monkeying with the compatibility tools. I won't be near a CEM+ again until next year though.

Basically. F12 should open the Developer Tools toolbar. Go to the Emulation tab, and change the Document Mode to "7." Refresh the Sensor+ Connect page, and log in as you normally would.
 

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