Hello/Posting Etiquette

[Rip Van Winkle]

Hey all —

I’ve perused the forums a lot over the years, and have been impressed by the thoughtful, respectful, and productive conversations I’ve read, and the willingness of seasoned professionals to mentor and share their experience. I have just registered an account for the first time and have an etiquette/posting question.

I was a professional in theater sound for about a decade before I switched careers (although it remains one of my favorite jobs), with my last gigs passing early in the 21st century. Now I have kids, and I’ve volunteered to help their school’s (mess of a) theater. While the fundamentals haven’t changed, I face a learning curve with some of the specifics.

So I have a bunch of questions, the unifying thread of which is essentially, “What’s new in the past 20 years?” I’m really trying to elicit opinions on best practices, what important advances I may have missed in technology or technique, and what the best choices now for the future might be.

On the one hand, I hope that the community will find these to be engaging topics of conversation individually — some are broad, some are more specific, and I think they’ll generally elicit a range of opinions and experiences. On the other, I appreciate that I very little relevant current experience or knowledge to contribute to those conversations after asking the questions.

I don’t want to be “that guy” who suddenly appears and opens a flurry of new topics and then, let’s be honest, is likely to recede into the background after asking them. I’m tempted to lump them together in a single thread (maybe two), which, in the best case scenario, might prompt some wise readers to identify the important questions I’m NOT asking.
What do you think, one post or a series of individual posts?

As a preview, here are some of the topics I’d like to ask about. If you’re recommending that I make individual posts, please let me know if any jump out as interesting places to start! (Or, if you think “this guy just needs to get a copy of ‘xxx’”, I’m desperate for recommendations!)

**** Playback & playback innovations (Where’s all the cool stuff is expected to have available here in the future? Maybe I’m just not looking in the right places?)

**** Stage networking (Are there valuable advances I should know about? For instance, are small theaters really getting anything out of connecting lights & sound?)

**** Backstage (dressing room) monitoring & paging (what are best practices in 2023? Is video considered the norm?)

**** Powered speakers (esp. best practices for flown speakers & monitors)

**** Backstage administrating & organizing (how to deal with the mess of volunteer theater, effective inventory control, effective organizing tools & techniques, etc.)

**** Future-proofing your installed systems (it’s amazing how much stuff that was installed in 2016 is arguably just garbage in 2023!)

**** Working with kids as an adult (expectations and ethics)


Thank you so much in advance!

“Rip”

 

[derekleffew]

Those are all great topics, some we've discussed before, others not so much. I'd release them one at a time, after doing a through search, the posting software will suggest similar threads.

One I had to laugh at: "For instance, are small theaters really getting anything out of connecting lights & sound?" To each other?

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Thanks for your input, genuinely appreciated ! (I was thinking about seeing DMX functionality & extensive MIDI showing up in smaller and smaller consoles in the ‘00’s, and wondering if this ended up being just so much marketing shovelware and clutter of the transition to digital, or if show control is genuinely becoming less of a specialty field. However, on re-reading, perhaps there are productions which may have been best served with sound & light simply not connected to anything at all, like power…)

 

[RonaldBeal]

I'll do a quick and dirty start

Hey all —

....

**** Playback & playback innovations (Where’s all the cool stuff is expected to have available here in the future? Maybe I’m just not looking in the right places?)

Q-lab Inexpensive, and industry standard... can rent by the day, which can cumulatively purchase license

**** Stage networking (Are there valuable advances I should know about? For instance, are small theaters really getting anything out of connecting lights & sound?)

Entertainment oriented ethernet switches help (Pathport Via, Luminex Gigacore, and Netgear A/V)
We don't really network lights and sound together, but they can share common infrastructure, segerated by ethernet VLANs.A basic understanding of network multicast is also helpful.

**** Backstage (dressing room) monitoring & paging (what are best practices in 2023? Is video considered the norm?)

Not much changed in this regard.

**** Powered speakers (esp. best practices for flown speakers & monitors)

New amp tech has powered speakers more common than before. Only fly if they are built with rigging hardware from the mfg. COnsult a professional... standard disclaimers apply.

**** Backstage administrating & organizing (how to deal with the mess of volunteer theater, effective inventory control, effective organizing tools & techniques, etc.)

Tazer.
Also group messaging for scheduling and schedule changes.
Cloud sharing for design/creatives

**** Future-proofing your installed systems (it’s amazing how much stuff that was installed in 2016 is arguably just garbage in 2023!)

Installs: pull single mode fiber... Cheap to run, and will be viable for decades.
Pull cat 7 STP
Lighting dimmers are going out of favor, being replaced by switched (or non-switched) power distros for LED

**** Working with kids as an adult (expectations and ethics)

Tazer
Also, for liability reasons, never leave kids alone, OR with a single adult. should ALWAYS be supervised by multiple adults.

Thank you so much in advance!

“Rip”

Good luck.

 

[Les]

I'll stick to what I know, in also echoing @RonaldBeal's sentiments.

1). Playback & playback innovations: I'll second Ronald's suggestion of using Qlab. It's truly a game changer in its accessibility and flexibility. You will need a Mac to run it. If you have a digital console, look in to TheatreMix software as well.

2). Stage Networking: My venue actually does have lighting and sound networked together. We don't use this functionality often, but it is really useful when cueing simultaneous lighting/sound cues such as explosions, lightning/thunder, etc. We can have the lighting console trigger a Qlab cue or vise-versa. One time we were running low on technicians for a very simple play and programmed the lighting console to trigger all sound cues (of which there were very few). I don't necessarily recommend going this route if it can be avoided, but it's amazing what can be done with a relatively low amount of gear. Sound has gone digital in many places - expect a Cat6 line to replace that huge audio snake in some venues. DMX is still prevalent; MIDI not so much, except for in the orchestra pit when pairing MainStage software with keyboards.

3). Backstage (dressing room) monitoring & paging: 70v speakers and ClearCom (or equivalent) are still pretty common, though I have been wanting to add video feeds to key backstage areas.

4). Backstage administrating & organizing: I'll let you know when I figure this one out!!

5). Working with kids as an adult (expectations and ethics): The major takeaway in my theatre's policy is what Ronald said. Here is a link to my venue's Volunteer Harassment Policy, which might be of interest.

6). You didn't ask for it, but digital backdrop projections are becoming an integral part to more and more productions.

Welcome to CB!

 

[TimMc]

Networks? Video and audio? Cats and dogs sleeping together? Yeah, it can happen. Mostly not, though. Running telemetry, command or control of LX and audio on the same subnet is fine, but if you're using Dante or other digital audio/video protocols, the co-existence isn't guaranteed to be happy.

Aux feeds - dressing room program, paging, lobby and cry room feeds, green room... my ideal world has those all under separate control. Hey, I can dream, right?

Kids - never one-on-one with an adult or significantly older kids, and my policy is I don't touch kids without a signed parental release. That means I don't apply microphones, etc. I'll happily teach company parents how to do these things, though, and encourage their participation under whatever rules the producer has in place.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Aux feeds - dressing room program, paging, lobby and cry room feeds, green room... my ideal world has those all under separate control. Hey, I can dream, right?

As long as you don't need fine control of announce, you can do this by running it all 70V, with separate pads for each zone, accessible from the desk.

Ask me why I make that last stipulation; go ahead, I dare you.

 

[StradivariusBone]

If you're going down the Ethernet to everything rabbit hole, I'd recommend you investigate Bitfocus's Companion software that runs on an Elgato Streamdeck. It's becoming ubiquitous in production environments and can really do some creative and useful things if you're willing to spend the time to get it to work right.

There's a lot to be said for a crew being in sync enough to time the bang and the flash together convincingly, but there is also a lot to be said for teaching kids how to automate such things through various protocols and software. OSC and RTP-MIDI are things to explore in that realm.

Updates depend on your infrastructure and budget. If you've got an old CATV network installed, you can get an inexpensive RF modulator that will send a digital QAM compatible signal down the pipe and upgrade that to HDTV. If you've got coax that's at least RG-59 it'll handle SDI up to HD-SDI I think, which is good enough for 1080P/60 I'm a big fan of taking the old and adding new to it. Doesn't usually break the bank and saves on crap in the landfills.

 

[Les]

There's a lot to be said for a crew being in sync enough to time the bang and the flash together convincingly, but there is also a lot to be said for teaching kids how to automate such things through various protocols and software. OSC and RTP-MIDI are things to explore in that realm.

This is a good point, especially since we are talking about an educational environment. One certainly doesn't want to automate anyone out of a job, or inadvertently stunt their timing skills, so honing in on calling/executing cues together while also having automation tools/skills ready to be deployed where appropriate (because that's fun too) is a good approach. Certainly don't do what we once did and OSC your way around needing a sound board op.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Updates depend on your infrastructure and budget. If you've got an old CATV network installed, you can get an inexpensive RF modulator that will send a digital QAM compatible signal down the pipe and upgrade that to HDTV. If you've got coax that's at least RG-59 it'll handle SDI up to HD-SDI I think, which is good enough for 1080P/60 I'm a big fan of taking the old and adding new to it. Doesn't usually break the bank and saves on crap in the landfills.

My cameras would do 1080p, but I had to force them to 1080i to fit them through the 1.5G SDI cable I had, which I think is 1694.

 

[Vince]

As long as you don't need fine control of announce, you can do this by running it all 70V, with separate pads for each zone, accessible from the desk.

Ask me why I make that last stipulation; go ahead, I dare you.

I'm curious, why did you make that last stipulation?

 

[Jay Ashworth]

I'm curious, why did you make that last stipulation?

Smart alec...

If you feed your 70 volt amp with a single aux mix, then everything will get your TalkBack if you use it. Which means that it will go through the 70 volt to your backstage dressing rooms, and through the same 70 volt to your lobby speakers. That's generally not what you want there.

Oh wait, that's not the question you were asking. In the booth I spend most of my time in there are individual Zone switches for the 70 volt for each of the three floors, but they are around the corner down a step in a rack which means I cannot conveniently reach them when I need to.

In fact you just reminded me that I switched on the second floor speakers the other day during intermission, and forgot to shut them off. Oops.

 

[almorton]

On our SM desk the announcements go to whichever zones are selected and held down while the announcement is made. So this can be a single zone or all of them or anything in between.

 

[Van]

Working with kids:
I highly recommend the Boy Scouts Youth Protection program. It was adopted a while ago it's VERY comprehensive. It's free to take the course and obtain the certification. Think what you want about the BSA's issues, the program really is a gold standard of What and How. Require it for any staff members/volunteers working with kids; if for no other reason it is a great CYA.
After all that be sure you have consent forms from parents that spell out the scope of work and tools the precious babies will be dealing with. If rules are broken, no matter how talented the kid is, they get a warning then they are banned from the shop/work calls.
I've spent a LOT of time working with kids and the depth of knowledge, commitment and creativity is astounding. Now days you cannot be too careful however. There are things I used to do/allow that I would never do today. Have fun coming back! and Welcome Aboard!

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Wow! Did not expect this level of engagement on my “hello” post! Thank you for your thoughtful responses. Every one is appreciated; expect more questions in the forums in the near future. Pardon me while I try to learn the commenting interface and jump back in:

I'll stick to what I know, in also echoing @RonaldBeal's sentiments.

1). Playback & playback innovations: I'll second Ronald's suggestion of using Qlab. It's truly a game changer in its accessibility and flexibility. You will need a Mac to run it. If you have a digital console, look in to TheatreMix software as well.

QLab — yes! I’ve been looking at it, and it’s such a cool solution. It it popular with lighting as well? It’d be so nice to have all my playback cues handled by the kid tasked with hitting the “go” button (I guess space bar now) for lights — is this a standard (and reliable) procedure? (Thanks for the TheatreMix recommendation — we have an Allen & Heath GLD-80; I’m trying to focusing on making things simple and will see if that software can be a part of that…)

Working with kids:
I highly recommend the Boy Scouts Youth Protection program. It was adopted a while ago it's VERY comprehensive. It's free to take the course and obtain the certification. Think what you want about the BSA's issues, the program really is a gold standard of What and How. Require it for any staff members/volunteers working with kids; if for no other reason it is a great CYA.
After all that be sure you have consent forms from parents that spell out the scope of work and tools the precious babies will be dealing with. If rules are broken, no matter how talented the kid is, they get a warning then they are banned from the shop/work calls.
I've spent a LOT of time working with kids and the depth of knowledge, commitment and creativity is astounding. Now days you cannot be too careful however. There are things I used to do/allow that I would never do today. Have fun coming back! and Welcome Aboard!

Lots of good advice on this topic, thank you all.
The school hasn’t asked me for it yet, but I am also getting FBI clearances in order (SOP for most supervision at schools I’ve been involved with recently — don’t know if it’s universally required, but seems like a good idea).

I’ve only placed mics on adults, and I had a jolt when I started thinking about how to apply that knowledge to kids. A firm “no touching” rule is an excellent place to start; I will communicate this to the director/department head and work on procedures. I’m lucky in that we have a senior (high school) who’s just gotten into SCAD to do costume design. I will be able to (verbally) instruct her this spring and be completely hands off, with an eye towards figuring out procedures moving forward.

6). You didn't ask for it, but digital backdrop projections are becoming an integral part to more and more productions.

Yikes! Are the digital backgrounds generally (in small theaters) tasked to sound? Are they typically run off of QLab as well? (I’d assumed they were assigned to lights)

Again, all of you are being tremendously helpful in bridging this chronological gap. I genuinely appreciate your generosity with your expertise.

 

[sk8rsdad]

QLab can run lighting cues either directly or via network commands to a lighting console. As primarily a lighting person, I wouldn't use QLab as a lighting console but, depending on the license, it has the capability. QLab can trigger lighting cues on a remote console using a variety of networking protocols. The best choice depends greatly on the lighting console and the requirements of the production. I find OSC to be the most useful for my purposes.

I can't speak to whether it's a standard procedure. I tend to do the converse, triggering sound cues from the lighting console. Others would recommend having separate operators. Anyone can do it when things are going well but what happens when something doesn't go as expected. That's a lot of pressure to put on one kid, who has now not only missed a sound cue, but also blacked out the stage while trying to fix the missing sound cue problem.

QLab has good support for video cues , so the operator tends to inherit the running of those cues. My venue routinely runs multiple projectors via QLab, often using network synchronization with the lighting console.

 

[almorton]

Exactly as @sk8rsdad said. We run Qlab for sound and projection and an Ion for lights. They can fire each other (we use midi but gave used OSC) so you can the show with a single operator, either from the Ion or from Qlab, whichever fits the show best. We also run shows either dual operators if the complexity merits it.

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

I can't speak to whether it's a standard procedure. I tend to do the converse, triggering sound cues from the lighting console.

More excellent information, thank you! (As of yet, I have no idea what kind of tech crew will be available to me or whether or not they have any background (correct) knowledge, so I’m trying to figure out the range of options I have.)

In the old days, I made it a policy to know as little as possible about lighting for two reasons: #1. Non-union houses, didn’t want to be tasked with someone else’s job, and #2. I liked that there was something “magical” left in stagecraft for me. Looks like I may no longer have that luxury, which is fine. Time to take a peek behind that curtain!

 

[StradivariusBone]

I highly recommend the Boy Scouts Youth Protection program.

I was thinking the same thing, I'm glad you said it. Main takeaway points from the program are to always have "two deep leadership" present for any program activity- meaning two trusted and vetted adults on site and aware/engaged. Avoid one on one at anytime between adult and kid and also old kid to young kid. Unfortunately, some of the abuse that gave rise to YPT was from older scouts to younger scouts, so it's vital to avoid putting younger kids in a position where they could face abuse from older kids.

It also goes into how to recognize abusers and their behavior as well as what to look for in kids who have been abused. In Florida, everyone is a mandatory reporter which means if you have a reasonable suspicion that child abuse is occurring you are legally obligated to report it. Anyone working in a supervisory role with kids should be aware of red flags and know the proper way to escalate concerns within their organizations. I'd been in public education for over a decade before taking YPT when my son started in Cubs and I was amazed at how much it taught me that I hadn't already learned from teaching. It's a good course.