Hey. I'm a high school lighting manager looking for an answer to a problem for the past 4 productions. I have a set of 10 Appollo scrollers powered by an appropriately matched wattage wise power supply that have not worked correctly for the past few shows. When changing them all together from the first color to the last I need to give them 12 or more seconds of fade time, otherwise they go through the same process as when you first turn them on after which a few are not on the appropriate color and then I need to turn them off and back on manually which requires a run to the catwalk which I have to do whenever I take them into manual control with a fader because the slightest bump sets them off. Twice I reran every single scroller cable with a new one and they worked PERFECTLY. I came in the next day and they were seemingly worse than ever. If anyone has an answer or suggestion I would love to hear it. Thank you very much.
Automated Fixtures Apollo Scrollers take a long time
- Thread starterGibby
- Start date
jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
Hello! First, what console are you using? Secondly, what model of Apollo Scroller? Third, what model of power supply.
Next, are they all run on one single chain? If so, you shouldn't do that with ten. The voltage drop is too great over that number (you can sometimes accomplish it, but not always). Do you have the reset DMX channel on? Is it inadvertently patched thus causing them to reset when that channel hits full?
Scott beat me somewhat, also. Like he said. Is the line terminated back to the PSU? Also, power supplies are not designed for dimmed power if you have it on it. Even set to non-dim, dimmers don't provide power in the same way that your standard outlet or relay does.
Next, are they all run on one single chain? If so, you shouldn't do that with ten. The voltage drop is too great over that number (you can sometimes accomplish it, but not always). Do you have the reset DMX channel on? Is it inadvertently patched thus causing them to reset when that channel hits full?
Scott beat me somewhat, also. Like he said. Is the line terminated back to the PSU? Also, power supplies are not designed for dimmed power if you have it on it. Even set to non-dim, dimmers don't provide power in the same way that your standard outlet or relay does.
In order of questions: Yes I have a return line. No, I am not running it off of a dimmed outlet. I did not see error codes. I am using an ETC 48/96 Express. I am not posiitve of what models of scrollers or power supply but I could find out tomorrow. The scrollers are on two chains of five. I am not sure what a reset channel is but I did go through every single patch the last show and I am positive there weren't any extras patched in.
As Kyle said, for 10 scrollers you need at least a 400w power supply. I believe the max you could put on a 400w PSU is 12 scrollers. However, there is also a limit to the amount of cable you can use, the number of head feet. For the Apollo SmartPower PSUs I believe it is 200' per chain. This means that if you add up all the cable runs from PSU to scrollers and back if it is over 200' you could have issues.
jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
Still sounds like power drop problems. Bad PSU or too low of a wattage PSU? Too much cable like Alex said?
I would check each scroller unit and make sure of the on/off state of their reset channel, and the addressing of it. MANUALApollo Design | Smart Color® PRO 7.25 Scroller I believe that should be the correct manual since it doesn't sound like you have MXR color mixers. If you do, then you may actually also be running into power problems as they draw more power (about twice as much movement to make per color change). Still can't get a hand on it? Call the Apollo guys, if they don't chime in on here by that point.
jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
Sounds like the PSU is going possibly, then? Being from Philly myself, I know that you can fry these things pretty easily if you don't have a surge protector in front of them. Or maybe they need some loving from Apollo?
PS: Welcome to the boards from Philly by way of RI by way of Philly.
PS: Welcome to the boards from Philly by way of RI by way of Philly.
I had the same issue this summer. Checked all the variables and discovered that the units had been hung right after being purchased 6 years ago and never came down for cleaning since.
There ended up being a TON of dust inside of them. Took them outside and hit them with some compressed air and they worked great ever since. Sounds like you might be in the same type of situation where they don't get much maintenance and might just simply need some TLC.
There ended up being a TON of dust inside of them. Took them outside and hit them with some compressed air and they worked great ever since. Sounds like you might be in the same type of situation where they don't get much maintenance and might just simply need some TLC.
When you say Apollo, there are two totally different sytems to consider.
The early Apollo scrollers that have a "Q" in the model name or number, were manufactured by Spectrum engineering in Canada, and are the same as Chroma Q scrollers. If they have the "dip switch" addressing system, then they are autocalibrating, and will recalibrate any time that they have too little voltage to operate. This will happen anytime that too many scrollers are asked to change gel positions, when there are too many on a powersupply, or the cable lengths are too long.
Of course there is also the possibility of the voltage regulator is failing in the power supply and allowing voltage fluctuations from the mains.
DC voltage has quite a large drop over distance, on wire. That is one of the reasons for the return line from the last scroller to the supply. Even with a return line if the total loop is too long then the cable becomes a large part of the resistance in the system. When the scrollers are required to move and pull more current, the cable resistance adds more to the amount of current required by the supply.
Also if these are of the Q series, they calibrate and measure their position with two electro/optical devices that are triggered by what appears to be a small windmill. If there is too much dust in the scroller, the electro/optical devices can't see the interuptions of the blades on the windmill.
Most all of these things are suggested in the posts above. If the Scrollers are of the newer Apollo "Colorsmart" series, then there might be other things to consider.
If you have the ability, connect a DC voltmeter to the power portion of the cable. Positive is on pin 4 and negative on pin 1. When you give all of the scrollers a command to change colors, if the voltage drops to 18 volts or less, you need to look at Cable lengths, possibly bad solder connections on power leads, or too much cable or too many scrollers on a supply. If you have the capability, you could measure each scroller for current draw. When they are moving, they should draw approximately 0.6 amps or less. If it is an amp or more, check to see if something is dragging in the scroller.
Tom Johnson
The early Apollo scrollers that have a "Q" in the model name or number, were manufactured by Spectrum engineering in Canada, and are the same as Chroma Q scrollers. If they have the "dip switch" addressing system, then they are autocalibrating, and will recalibrate any time that they have too little voltage to operate. This will happen anytime that too many scrollers are asked to change gel positions, when there are too many on a powersupply, or the cable lengths are too long.
Of course there is also the possibility of the voltage regulator is failing in the power supply and allowing voltage fluctuations from the mains.
DC voltage has quite a large drop over distance, on wire. That is one of the reasons for the return line from the last scroller to the supply. Even with a return line if the total loop is too long then the cable becomes a large part of the resistance in the system. When the scrollers are required to move and pull more current, the cable resistance adds more to the amount of current required by the supply.
Also if these are of the Q series, they calibrate and measure their position with two electro/optical devices that are triggered by what appears to be a small windmill. If there is too much dust in the scroller, the electro/optical devices can't see the interuptions of the blades on the windmill.
Most all of these things are suggested in the posts above. If the Scrollers are of the newer Apollo "Colorsmart" series, then there might be other things to consider.
If you have the ability, connect a DC voltmeter to the power portion of the cable. Positive is on pin 4 and negative on pin 1. When you give all of the scrollers a command to change colors, if the voltage drops to 18 volts or less, you need to look at Cable lengths, possibly bad solder connections on power leads, or too much cable or too many scrollers on a supply. If you have the capability, you could measure each scroller for current draw. When they are moving, they should draw approximately 0.6 amps or less. If it is an amp or more, check to see if something is dragging in the scroller.
Tom Johnson
Hi gang, Keith here-
Having read the several very accurate comments and suggestions, you guys get an A+ in 24V accessory class!
Gibby, please let us know here on the forum which scroller and PSU models are being used, or you may call me toll free at your convenience at 800-CUT-GOBO (800.288.4626)
Looking forward to serving you,
Having read the several very accurate comments and suggestions, you guys get an A+ in 24V accessory class!
Gibby, please let us know here on the forum which scroller and PSU models are being used, or you may call me toll free at your convenience at 800-CUT-GOBO (800.288.4626)
Looking forward to serving you,
Thanks for sharing your web link as well, Joe. Nice saturated color and depth within the photo gallery!
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