C5 or not C5?

[GageStryker]

Hey guys!

Was lamenting recently about the lack of three phase power in my venue, looking at getting a 400A cam service installed, trying to argue with everyone, and then recently ran across these on the catwalk:

208V 3 phase twist lock connector

(in receptacle, not plug form)

208V, 3 phase power... just what I needed! It was left over, still in service from some motors that had been used to fly PA and subsequently replaced with steel.

Now, I just need to get this into something I can power 208V movers with, and I'm set. Came up with the moving light distro one of my suppliers rents out:

MLD 208V

Obviously, I could just get a male TWL plug and wire the distro into it, but I doubt the rental company would appreciate that too much. So I'm looking at making an adaptor plug: Male 30A 208V 3 phase TWL to female C-5 30A 208V 3 phase pin and sleeve

However...
a) can't find any pinout diagrams for C5. Just lots of corvette wiring diagrams.
b) wanted to run this by the members and make sure there isn't something obvious (or obviously dangerous) I'm missing here.

 

[derekleffew]

From simplest to most difficult:

1. Ask your vendor (Christie Lites?) to supply the distro with NEMA L21-30 Plug.

2. Ask your vendor to supply the distro with bare ends, and wire on your own L21-30P.

3. Buy your own female C5 (CeeForm #3133 short sleeve, or 31022 Long sleeve), L21-30P, length of 10/5 or 8/5 SO cable, and make your own adapter. Both the plug and connector are probably marked inside with X, Y, Z, N, G; or L1, L2, L3, N, E.

While I have nothing against Christie Lites' gear or personnel, their cable department does seem to go out of its way to rebel against common industry practice.

The following was helpful in providing this answer:

... given it has feeding it a:
Cee 5-pin Female Bal’s #3147 32A-9H 120/208&144/250v 32A (30A) Ceeform - blue 5-pin 3P+N+G Female “Kupplung”

Cee 5-Pin Female CeeForm #331509 32A-9H 120/208&144/250v 32A (30A) Ceeform - blue 5-pin 3P+N+G Female

(Leviton now also makes these plugs now.)

I think the keyword missing from your searches was "CeeForm".

 

[Chris15]

Mennekes make a nice IEC60309 connector.

Wiring diagram from Mennekes...

DL, Perhaps it's the common industry practice that needs to change...

 

[joeboo46]

you could also ask Christie to supply you with a C-5 to bare end tail. You could then temporarily wire your plug to the bare end and remove it when returning the rental. The color coding is also standard on the tail. Saves you the trouble of buying connectors to make an adapter.

 

[ship]

Me being pulled kicking and screaming into the whole CeeForm standards and I do have a quote out for Leviton as most imported plugs or even Hubble versions are not cheap to be sure. That's on the other hand where the industry as with PowerCon is going. Yesterday had some vendor in doing a demo wanting the red instead of the blue version of this plug. Kenisis or someone like that in needing a second alternate to the blue version. Euro plug types such in normally it's blue for 32A or lower and red for 64A, but every once in a while you get the red versions thrown into the mix.


Granted that the L21-30 twist lock plug for us is fairly standard but there are them out there that are L21-20 plug and once they get removed, such plugs or receptacles in looking similar often find their way into my mix or jobsite ... problems. Looks the same but don't interconnect.

L21-30, you are good for most in the industry for a few more years until we all have to deal with CeeForm stuff and the snap covers for them that if in compliance have to be there, but often are ripped off in being in the way so as to plug into the fixture... Realistically, Euro fixtures that don't account for the snap cover in having to be removed, yet you have to after each show replace that cover so as to be compliant. Only a few years into such a few hundred dollars per year debate in some from Europe telling me screw the replacement covers - we are just going to rip them off anyway once we go to plug it in.

NEMA plug concept is good... Euro CeeForm system has a lot of work to do on feasibility and unfortunately is going to take over the US industry in time. Just how the industry is going.

 

[LightStud]

Euro plug types such in normally it's blue for 32A or lower and red for 64A, but every once in a while you get the red versions thrown into the mix.

Sorry, 100% wrong. Color is determined by phase to phase voltage, not amperage. See IEC 60309:

Characteristic Colour
20 V – 25 V Purple
40 V – 50 V White
100 V – 130 V Yellow
200 V – 250 V Blue
380 V – 480 V Red
500 V – 690 V Black
> 60 Hz – 500 Hz Green
None of the above Grey

 

[Chris15]

Sorry, 100% wrong. Color is determined by phase to phase voltage, not amperage. See IEC 60309:

If and only if people are following the standards properly. We've seen on more than one occasion in the past where that has not been the case...

And Amperage is NOT a word, the term is current...

 

[derekleffew]

... And Amperage is NOT a word, the term is current...

While it may be current practice to use the word current when referring to quantity of amperes, amperage is too a word.

 

[Chris15]

While it may be current practice to use the word current when referring to quantity of amperes, amperage is too a word.

Come on... the free dictionary, that's like saying Wikipedia said so it must be true

Even if it is a word, that does not make it the correct term to use when describing a technical parameter...

 

[GageStryker]

Thanks guys!

Now that I've got the product codes I'm looking for, I'm able to ask my electrical supplier to see what making adaptors would run.

I guess the other alternative is to replace the receptacles themselves, but I have a feeling we'd be running into trouble if we ever wanted to use them for motors again.

And besides, this way I'll have a cable to put the new techs in line with "so you know everything about lighting, right? What's THIS cable for?"

 

[ship]

Euro CeeForm plug standards are hard to deal with and you are in the U.S. I would go with U.S. standards such as the L21-30 and make people coming in adapt to what you provid as published in the rider or specifications of your location. That or provide a company swith and let them provide their own tails.

Just had someone from Kenisis in Europe coming for a visit in not knowing if he got his adaptors or somethig into a sea container and inquiring about "Red five pin Cee type plugs and like 10/5 cable in availability" once he got here. Our hoist Dpt. in dealing with the Kenisis system wonders about such a red plug given they are blue 32A five pin plugs...

All this Euro Cee Form type plugs. Though not an expert, believe the blue 16A-9h is a industry standard. The Red 63A five pin is also for Europe also a standard. The Red 32 verses the blue 32A plug is in question epecially for five pole. Most use the blue one.

Get it? Assuming the above 10/5 cable request, it's for a 32A plug, yet the Kenisis system uses the blue not the red version of that. There is two 32A five pin Euro type plugs out there and at time in limited use.

In general, lots of Cee type plugs on the market, of the 32A version, only the 9h or 6h version one needs to be concerned about mostly. Blue mostly used of that.

 

[Chris15]

We use Red 5 pin cee all the time because of our 230/400 mains, Europe is the same.

We use blue 3 pin for the same reason. We also use yellow 3 pin on occasion when doing power distribution for US gear, complete with blue 5pin to feed that.

In the end, every production company worth their salt maintains a stock of adapters from what they use to what they see at various places they work... But they won't send them if you don't ask for them...