Check me here guys...(Jands Vista/Chauvet ColorStrip)

[SHARYNF]

So if we can get a lot of CB members to all email Chauvet we MIGHT be able to get them to change their stance. In many cases it is like the whole Toyota deal, if the manufacturer thinks there are only a few folks with the problem or that they can just ignore them, some do just that


SO if most of the cb member would email [email protected] we might be able to get them to understand that:

Products that claim to have DMX support need to meet the specification
Companies that ignore customer issues with valid complaints run the risk of serious loss of future sales. There are a LOT of folks here on CB, and quite a number of them are Influencers or Recommenders or Direct Purchasers. Having these folks be negative on Chauvet is not a situation to ignore

Here is the PR contact

Contact: Ann Feltgen
Public Relations Specialist
CHAUVET
954-929-1115, ext. 47

E-mail: [email protected]


Sharyn

 

[jmabray]

Good luck, but I am out on that. When I went strait to the product manager on the Floor at LDI and he lies to my face (by telling me they have only had 8 complaints about the product), he's lost my respect, as well as any effort on my part that could result in his future sales.

When he tells me that this is one of their number 1 products and won't take a small amount of the profit they have made and correct an issue with the fixture, it chaps my tushie.

 

[Esoteric]

There is a reason why I don't buy Chauvet gear. They have always had these problems. Elation had them for quite some time but recently fixed them. In fact Elation (and Strand) have come a long way recently to the point where I will actually spec their gear (for the purposes it was meant for). I still will not touch Chauvet with a 10 meter pole.

Mike

 

[jmabray]

I'd have to agree, Mike. The Elation gear I have played with recently has been much better than I thought it would be.

Strand's problem has never been their gear itself - just the repair services once it broke. (Not saying that it was any more prone to breaking than anything else. Everything breaks - no matter how well it's made.)

 

[Esoteric]

Yeah, Elation has come a long way. I have even thought about buying a few of their Design series moving lights. You just have to use it for what it was meant for.

Well, back in the day Strand stuff used to feel cheap (the plastic on their consoles constantly broke, and their keys were small and wierd shaped, the effects engine was difficult to use, their instrument parts never worked right, shutters, lens trays quit sliding, and their optics were bad, their dimmers were huge with very little function, although the CD80 racks were bulletproof, even though they weigh a ton) and their customer service sucked. But they made a hell of a Fresnel.

But now, they have totally turned around the customer service, I am still not a fan of the ERS units, still love their Fresnels, their dimmers are teriffic products now and I hope to get behind a Pallette soon. But their service is great now!

Chauvet is still DJ junk.

Mike

 

[theatre4jc]

I am not a Jands user but here is what ETC did to fix the problem. I would guess that with a bit of encouraging and perhaps sending a color strip to Jands they could fix this for you

A lot of people have stated that ETC decided to fix it for Chauvet. Jands tried this, but with the way their software is written lowering the DMX transmit rate made the Jands software unstable. The Jands decision was to protect the credibility of their product and not worry about fixing Chauvet's mistakes. Even though I want it fixed, I agree with that stance.

Chauvet has 2 product lines, the "professional" and the "dj". Basically like American DJ and Elation. Instead of two different brandings Chauvet just has 1. I've never had an issue with the Chauvet "professional" line and will continue to purchase them because for the price to quality its a good value. If, like Mike said, you use them for what they are made for. Now that I'm an educated consumer to what the cheaper Chauvet fixtures are like I'll spend the extra $100 and purchase their low end "professional" fixtures for small needs. But yes I do despise their mindset and business practice for not fixing this issue.

 

[SHARYNF]

While I agree that it is an Chauvet issue, our conversation with Milton at Doug Fleenor seems to point to this being a problem with a lot of the chinese dmx receivers.

Milton Shared what the specific problem was and the solution, so Jands might be able to impliment a fix that is still stable

Basically it is not the overall transmission rate but it is the need to increase the dead time between transmissions of bytes

If you look at the ETC and the Fleenor solution the consoles to support these slower dmx receivers need to add about 46 microseconds between sending each byte

Here is Milton's details:

The DMX data lines have two possible states. When data + is high and data -
is low, this is called a marking state. This is also called the idle state.
When the reverse is true (data + is low and data - is high), this is called
a break state. If the line is held in a break state for at least 88 us,
this is the DMX break which functions to signal the beginning of a packet.
The Chuavet fixture has no trouble with this. The next thing to happen is a
marking period of at least 8 us (max 1 second) which DMX calls the
mark-after-break or MAB. Typically, consoles send the MAB as 20 or 30 us.
Again, the Chauvet fixture has no trouble with this. The first byte follows
the MAB. DMX calls this the start code. For typical DMX communications,
this byte has a value of 00. The byte is made up of 11 bits; 1 start bit, 8
data bits, and 2 stop bits. Each bit is 4 us in length. This yields the
250,000 bits per second data rate (1 second divided by 4 us = 250,000 bits
per second). The bits per second (baud) is also OK on the Chauvet fixture.
The next 512 bytes are the actual DMX data. Each one is made up of 1 start
bit, 8 data bits, and 2 stop bits just like the start code was. The trick
here is that after the 11 bits of a byte have been sent, DMX allows you to
begin the start bit for the next byte immediately. The Chauvet fixture
can't cope with that. It needs some extra marking time before the next byte
starts to work properly. This time between the last stop bit of one byte
and the start bit of the next byte is called the inter-byte time or the
"mark time between slots" in the Standard. The Wikipedia entry doesn't
bother mentioning this parameter, but it is the most problematic one in the
current batch of imported receivers. That inter-byte time is what we are
adding in our DMX2DMX interface. We also send a fairly long break (about
300 us I think) and the MAB is about 40us.

so based on this information Jands might be able to impliment a solution that is still stable.

Sharyn

 

[SHARYNF]

A lot of people have stated that ETC decided to fix it for Chauvet. Jands tried this, but with the way their software is written lowering the DMX transmit rate made the Jands software unstable. The Jands decision was to protect the credibility of their product and not worry about fixing Chauvet's mistakes. Even though I want it fixed, I agree with that stance.

Chauvet has 2 product lines, the "professional" and the "dj". Basically like American DJ and Elation. Instead of two different brandings Chauvet just has 1. I've never had an issue with the Chauvet "professional" line and will continue to purchase them because for the price to quality its a good value. If, like Mike said, you use them for what they are made for. Now that I'm an educated consumer to what the cheaper Chauvet fixtures are like I'll spend the extra $100 and purchase their low end "professional" fixtures for small needs. But yes I do despise their mindset and business practice for not fixing this issue.

I do not think that the credibility of Jands Product is at stake. I am guessing that without a Chauvet unit they looked at a general solution that caused problems. I think that going forward a lot of folks that may for a variety of reasons buy cheaper units are going to start to have problems with the dmx receiver. At one time some consoles had the option of setting on the output or a universe a slower DMX rate. It might be worth talking to Jands again re the specifics of the solution presented above.

Or or course just buy the Fleenor unit or dump the Colorstrips or live with it

Sharyn

 

[derekleffew]

... Chauvet has 2 product lines, the "professional" and the "dj". Basically like American DJ and Elation. Instead of two different brandings Chauvet just has 1. I've never had an issue with the Chauvet "professional" line and will continue to purchase them because for the price to quality its a good value. If, like Mike said, you use them for what they are made for. Now that I'm an educated consumer to what the cheaper Chauvet fixtures are like I'll spend the extra $100 and purchase their low end "professional" fixtures for small needs. But yes I do despise their mindset and business practice for not fixing this issue.

Furthering what is said above, here is an unofficial quote from a representative of Chauvet:

Yes, our DJ fixtures are not intended for use in professional theatrical
applications. The colors are not as consistent as would be demanded for
professional applications and control is intended for pre-programmed stand
alone playback, or via the macros, and not full DMX control. They are
intended for DJ and club use, not controlled theatrical use. (I understand
that theatre applications with limited, to no budget seek out the least
expensive fixtures, but, "you get what you pay for," in this case)

It sounds to me like the fixture is being used in an application for which
it is not intended. It is a very inexpensive fixture that is not designed
to meet the demands of the highly specialized theatre marketplace.

I see by the interwebs/grapevine that CB member Ford Sellers has just taken a position as Sr Product Development Manager at CHAUVET, so we'll soon have an ally there, one who understands our needs and desires.

 

[jmabray]

Derek-

Then they shouldn't market the fixture as being able to be controlled via DMX as they do. (Never mind that they use 3 pin connectors.... )

COLORstrip? | CHAUVET Lighting

SHARYNF -

And I go back to my original question - Why should Jands (or ETC or whoever) have to alter a product that plainly and clearly and very consistently follows the standard that has been outlined to something that is non standard. Why should we even bother with standards then?

And again - this isn't anything about our needs and desires. This is about claiming things that are untrue. Don't claim that it can be DMX controlled, if it doesn't meet the specs.

Colors being consistent across batches (binning) is one thing that I can deal with when it comes to low cost fixtures. That is a case of getting what you paid for. But to be told that the fixture can be DMX controlled when MANY INDUSTRY STANDARD controllers cannot reliably control the fixture seems to be a pretty blatant falsehood to me.

I know that it's usually not a good thing to name a specific manufacturer or issue in a setting like this, but I think they blew that when they blew me off in the manner in which they did.

If Mr. Sellers would like to address this issue and do something about it, then I will take back what I have said. However, until that happens, I stand behind it.

And with that - I will get off my soapbox and put away my megaphone. Thanks for listening to me rant.

On the other hand, we had really beautiful weather here today... How about you?

 

[SHARYNF]

I guess there are a few things here that I would like to comment on:

On is that Jands and Etc and any other company does not HAVE to alter their system to support another companies errors. Some companies look to support their companies and will go out of their way to do things to help them even if it is not their fault.

There is a famous and true story about Nordstroms noted for its excellent customer service. One day in the store in San Francisco a customer came in complaining that the tires he had bought had fallen apart in a few months with the tread separating from the tire. The Manager asked the man how much did you pay for them and proceeded to give him a full refund. The clerk standing by was amazed, and said to the manager, "We Don't even sell tires? what are you doing"

The Manager replied he is an excellent customer and I will do anything to make him happy"


The second issue, here is more fundamental to CB and what CB is about and what CB is possibly to grow into

IF we want to move past the simple, ask questions and get answers and have a place to complain about issues, then fine

But if CB wants to survive long term and to become a factor in the industry then we need to take on these sorts of issues and campaign and persuaded the manufactures who sell products that do not work properly to stand by their products and suport them properly

it is ONLY when a group that is united and public decided to take some sort of action that a lot of the shall I say less customer service companies will infact fix the problems. Each individual customer can easily be passed off and ignored it is when a group that is powerful and public takes on the task that something gets done

Sad to say in todays market a lot of companies just have lost the desire for extraordinary customer service . Just look at Toyota, or think back to the Ford Pinto or the just in the news Salmonella situation.

ETC shows extraordinary customer service, they did not HAVE to do anything they looked at a problem and decided that a fix was possible and they did it. Sure it was not THEIR problem but it was THEIR CUSTOMER with the problem

This is why companies like ETC time and time again get high Marks for outstanding customer service


So:
If we want thing to change they we need to be proactive with companies like Chauvet and "hound" so to speak to correct issues and provide good customer support. Sadly simply saying I will not buy from them or recommend them has little impact.

Sharyn

 

[theatre4jc]

Very true Sharyn!!!!

 

[derekleffew]

... On the other hand, we had really beautiful weather here today... How about you?

Well, it snowed in parts of Las Vegas yesterday, but next week is supposed to reach mid/high 70s.

 

[TheAlphaNerd]

Hey all...

So I totally found this thread helpful after having purchased my COLORstrip so I thought I'd share with you what I have been doing with it.

I'm working with an arduino microcontroller and a DMX shield to control the lights. Software wise I'm using custom arduino code, custom max/msp code, and touch OSC to control the lights.

At the moment I've been playing with RGB mixing mode... I can successfully control all three colors and a strobe using my ipod touch (via touch osc).

Hopefully by next week I will have mapped out the entire control interface of the lights onto the ipod, giving everyone here another option as far as controlling the lights are concerned.

Just so you know, an arduino is 30 bucks, you can find a DMX shield online for around 40 bucks, and touchOSC is 5 bucks. Everything else will be my own code which I will be posting online, for free!

Check out a demo video I made here

 

[SHARYNF]

Very true Sharyn!!!!

Well I have been off on several projects that have kept me away from ControlBooth BUT in the mean time CHAUVET HAS FIXED THE PROBLEM., The other day I received new control boards that had about 11 different fixes and a new sofware chip. Was relatively easy to open up the Colorstrips and replace the small pc board. The new board nows works properly with DMX

Took a little while, but at least it is fixed now

Sharyn

 

[bishopthomas]

Well I have been off on several projects that have kept me away from ControlBooth

Good to have you back, Sharyn!

 

[DavidNorth]

I can confirm that the issue is resolved. As was done the first time this issue showed up on Jim Mabray's customer site, Chauvet sent some sample fixtures to ETC and ETC sent an Ion to Chauvet. We both did testing and verified that the updated design worked fine.

At ETC, we tested the fixture by using a very wide variety of timings [all within the DMX spec] by altering Interbyte, Interpacket, Break, MAB, and Post Start lengths. We were not able to recreate the same failures found in the earlier fixtures. Chauvet even sent us one of the old ones to reconfirm all findings.

I am not aware of how this is being rolled out but I would recommend mentioning this when ordering to make sure the new version is what you receive.

Chauvet was good to work with and it is encouraging that they were able to have their product redesigned to meet DMX specifications.

David

 

[derekleffew]

I find it encouraging to hear of a manufacturing actually FIXING a known problem rather than simply ignoring customer complaints. To everyone affected by this, please send a thank you to our buddy Ford, Sr. Product Development Manager for Chauvet.

 

[theatre4jc]

HAHA they fixed it...figures. I just bought the Doug Fleener device to slow down the DMX to make them work. Now the question is the people with the old ones, will they get the new parts for free since the original ones didn't meet specs?

 

[SHARYNF]

Chauvet sent me the replacement boards no charge

It was a pretty extensive rework

If anyone is interested I can give a step by step procedure to swap out the boards (Not that difficult but it helps to know which screws to remove etc etc)

Sharyn