Control/Dimming Consoles vs. Software

[jackchaos]

Hello, we are in the process of planning for outfitting a new worship space for our church. Currently we're using an Elation Show Designer 2 but we are getting some additional gear when we move and are looking to get a new lighting console or software driven lighting package. This is a list of most all of the gear:

12 Ellipsoidals
9 Intelligent Lights
18 LED lights of all shapes/sizes
1 Hazer
20 house lights through dimmer packs

I really like the look of some of the software package demos I've downloaded and played with. From reading this forum and other places on the net there really seems to be a negative contation with the software driving lighting controllers.

What are the negatives to the software package controllers? What would you guys recommend?


Jack Alford
Crosspoint Community Church
Crosspoint Church - Home

 

[bishopthomas]

I think for cue based applications (like what you'll probably be working with in a church setting) software is the way to go. For concerts where you need to be able to control everything on the fly, stack cues, call up pallets, etc. doing that off a keyboard and mouse is impossible. Many will tell you to get one of the high end PC solutions because they're really not that expensive (in the $1-3000 range), but it's when you start adding external hardware (programming and playback wings) that it gets expensive. By that point you might as well have bought a decent (even if it's used) physical controller.

 

[jackchaos]

Thanks for the response Bishop. What would you consider a decent physical controller for this amount of fixtures? Thanks.

 

[MNicolai]

You can only buy so much PC stuff before you might as well be picking something up like an Element. While it's not going to run 60 VL3500's, it'll handle quite a bit before you overload it. It's a great console when you want to have things like ML controls, a color picker, some faders, and a robust platform for it to operate on. [/end sales pitch]

The downside to PC-based controllers is that there are no guarantees. Manufacturers like Strand, ETC, Martin, GrandMA, and Leprecon can all guarantee the quality of their products to you. They've hand-picked the hardware and software, performed numerous benchmarks, optimized code, and have pushed their consoles to the breaking point so that they know you shouldn't be able to break their console up to a certain point. If, for some reason, your console does not live up to that standard -- they've got you covered. They'll possibly even give you a loaner console to use while your primary one is in the shop.

With PC-based controllers, it's up in the air. If your PC is constantly crashing, there's nothing to be done about it. If the hardware turns out to be incompatible with your PC, your SOL. If your PC hangs and causes weird fades and such, you can contact the developer but chances are all they can tell you to do is get crap off of your computer or get a new computer.

That said, you want to choose your software wisely. Some people here wouldn't trust their shows to it while others have run shows constantly on their PC's without problems for a few years. Just remember that when you buy a console, you're guaranteed a certain standard of quality and customer service, but when you buy a software package and a wing, you're guaranteed a download (or a CD) and a wing that's usually compatible with most PC's.

 

[DuckJordan]

Most of the people on here have only worked with one or the other. So while you may see a lot of negatives about software really. If its a problem its most likely because they are trying to multi-task a PC when running the software or have more than just windows installed as well as the show control software. So while a PC solution is easier to get started with and a console is easier to cue on the fly. I would say for a house of worship get a mix of both. get the ease of a software with the run on the fly of a fader wing.

I have used both Horizon and an ETC element for shows and i would prefer Horizon for a cue show and ETC for rock bands.

So really its personal preference. Try renting a board then compare it to your experience with the software trials. Then decide what you would like to do.

 

[Synchronize]

I also will say go with the Element. Its a wonderfully easy console to learn and use and the price is fantastic. There are a lot of ETC dealers out there that are more than happy to give a break to Houses of Worship as well. Call around for the best price. And try Full Compass, too. They've worked with me on price for many school's and churches that I've worked with.

As with any major gear purchase, demo it first. Any dealer should be more than happy to have you come in and demo the product. A lot of them will offer some sort of training, too. Go in and try it out. As soon as you get the hang of it you will realize that it is an incredibly powerful console for the price.

 

[kiwitechgirl]

The thing with software control is that for someone who doesn't know anything about lighting but wants to be able to put the house lights up for a meeting, it's rather difficult and you're going to have to either explain very, very clearly what to do, or else leave a list of comprehensive instructions. With a console, you can put the houselights on a sub and label it, so all they have to do is switch on the dimmers and console then push up one fader - very much easier. The same goes if they just want basic lights up on stage for a band practice or something. I would seriously advise that unless there is going to be someone who knows the software there whenever the building is in use, a console is a much more user-friendly solution.

I third the recommendation for an ETC desk - we recently replaced our aging (but much-loved) Strand 520 with the Ion, which is the big brother of Element, and it's an absolutely great desk. Ion or Element would work for you - which desk you go for would probably be determined by how much you want to spend. We love the Ion; it's one of those great desks where the basic stuff is very easy to figure out, even for someone who doesn't know much about lighting, but it's also very powerful.

 

[theatre4jc]

I want to piggy back off of what kiwitechgirl was saying about the controls for people just using the room. Since your house lights are DMX is there an architecual control in the room or some type of work light for non service times? If there is not I would jump on the band wagon for advising an actual console. Personally I use both and I dislike software only solutions for non moving fixtures because getting the fades to be flexible and on the fly typically is difficult. However I use Martin LightJockey in two of my rooms and as a backup to my Jands Vista S3 for my movers and LEDs.

Consoles do give cleaning crews, band members, and just common people using the room the ability to move one or two labeled faders and have light for whatever task they are doing. Software based is much more difficult. But there are still some good options for the software based. The Jands Vista is a great one because it can easily be upgraded to a desk and if your services grow you can switch to the full blown board and it's still the exact same control surface. I know a lot of churches that use the Vista and have been thrilled with it. Throw your song in the time line, edit to it specifically, then never delete it and when you use the song again you don't have to reprogram. It's my number one recommendation for Houses of Worship that use movers. Just pick the size you need now and you can upgrade later.

 

[MNicolai]

If you're in a situation where people are constantly entering and exiting the space who just need house lights on, rather than always pointing them at a console or a PC, the most appropriate solution is a button station connected in with the dimming system.

This could be accomplished with an ETC dimming system by incorporating a Unison processor, but for applications where an architectural processing system would be overkill, a $600 DFD 10-preset station can be used. It records presets from any DMX controller and can recall/regurgitate those presets into your system without needing the original controller again. This is a simple way to give house/general lighting control to anyone who needs it without handing them the keys to your $6500 console.

 

[JChenault]

I find that for conventional rigs ( That are not more than 96 dimmers or so ) I like sliders to control the channels. For moving lights, I really like the kind of interface that a PC program gives me.

It's a matter of user interface. I can show you a PC solution for moving lights that is quick, easy, and intuitive to use - but is clumsy with conventional lights. I can show you a board with lots of buttons and sliders that will work for movers, but there are always encoders, and I really hate that.

If the elation is working for you, why not keep it and add a PC based program for the movers. This would be the least expensive option, is the easiest way to control the movers, and maintains a system for conventional that you like. You should be able to control both systems from one console using Midi ( just looked at the show designer on the website, and it is not clear if this is possible, but probably is).

As for some of the Anti-PC comments above- let me respond.
Guarantee of reliability. The way to have a reliable control system is to:

• Dedicate it to running the lights. No games, No internet access etc.
• Have a backup system ready to go when you have a hardware failure.

With a PC based system, if I am reasonably tech savy, I can handle the first bullet. If I have a hardware failure, I can usually find a sparelapto. I can also upgrade hardware over time to take advantage of new features.
With a dedicated console, the manufacturer has done the work of providing me with a bullet proof platform. But If I have a hardware problem, I do not have a spare machine there I can use. PC solutions also are more resistant to dirt and abuse than are the buttons and sliders you typically find on stand alone consoles. And if your mouse craps out, you replace it. Hard to do that with an encoder on a board.

As to the houselight issue - not sure what the issue is here. If you want to have the janitor turning the lights on and off via the light board instead of a wall panel, with a PC solution you can easily install a touch screen with a button labeled "House Lights".

Now - like DuckJordan said, if you are doing rock bands and not cue based shows ( where you define 3 to 20 looks and want to go to them during the service) you probably do want lots of knobs and sliders - but that does not seem to be what you are facing.

Good luck with your search. It's a hard question, and one that always generates a lot of debate.