Control/Dimming Dimmers: Strand vs ETC

[Chococat]

Hi,

Does it really matter which dimmers a TV studio goes with? Or more specifically Strand C21 vs ETC Sensors, which one is better and why? This question came up today and no one had the answers. The other question was could we use our Strand board with ETC dimmers and vice versa? Any help information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Footer]

You can use both without issue as long as your console is DMX. There is nothing wrong with C21 dimmers. There is nothing wrong with Sensor dimmers. Both now have extremely complex controller cards. Both have the same dimmer curve. ETC does have better support at this time. I would go with whatever your local lighting company installs most of and is most familiar with because they will be the ones dealing with it on the install and when it breaks.

 

[Esoteric]

I used to be an ETC only guy. But after talking to the regional Strand Rep, I say you could go either way. Now if I can just get out to their headquarters.

Mike

 

[SteveB]

Only thought to add to Kyles:

Are you planning on connecting the console to the dimmers via DMX or Ethernet ?.

The advantage to Ethernet is potential for feedback of rack status, and as with Sensor using Advanced Feature dimmers (at additional cost per dimmer module), is feedback down to dimmer level of potential load issues (lamp burnouts), etc... I would expect Strand has similar features as well.

As a practical matter, I would recommend the Ethernet route for lighting communications between the console and dimmers, but be aware that it pretty much ties you to a console and dimmers from one manufacturer. Once you get a network backbone in place, adding functionality, such as add'l DMX nodes, Remote Video devices, backup console (if needed) are much easier to add on a network. Install a LOT of ethernet is the general rule.

 

[Footer]

The advantage to Ethernet is potential for feedback of rack status, and as with Sensor using Advanced Feature dimmers (at additional cost per dimmer module), is feedback down to dimmer level of potential load issues (lamp burnouts), etc... I would expect Strand has similar features as well.

As a practical matter, I would recommend the Ethernet route for lighting communications between the console and dimmers, but be aware that it pretty much ties you to a console and dimmers from one manufacturer. Once you get a network backbone in place, adding functionality, such as add'l DMX nodes, Remote Video devices, backup console (if needed) are much easier to add on a network. Install a LOT of ethernet is the general rule.

You can also get that feedback on any computer running a web browser with both systems.

 

[SteveB]

You can also get that feedback on any computer running a web browser with both systems.

Yup, but not as elegant as having it display errors at the console, as you have to have the computer setup and reading the network and if I'm typical, I don't keep a laptop setup for that function. My experience with CEM+ On-Line is there's a time lag of real-time data displaying on the computer.

Begs the question does Eos/Ion/Element have feedback in realtime of the AF functions of the Sensor racks ?. Can't remember reading anything in the manual, though I might have skipped it as I don't have AF.

 

[Footer]

Lets also face it, dimmer feedback is nice but not as important as it used to be. On the older racks, dimmer feedback was as simple as "the rack is on fire" or "the racks not on fire". Now, you can look at voltage/loading and all that fun stuff. It is pretty "cool" stuff to look at, however for me is not a deal breaker.

 

[waynehoskins]

On the older racks, dimmer feedback was as simple as "the rack is on fire" or "the racks not on fire".

At least in the Strand universe, in days of old (and even relatively not-so-old), the CD80 racks had an Overtemp jack, which you would connect with another cable to the Overtemp jack on the console -- conceptually similar to ETCLink in ETC land. The jack on the back of the console was wired directly to the Overtemp LED on the front panel of the console. My guess would be, seeing how bulletproof (and understandably paranoid) the console end of the "dimmer feedback" was, the rack end was equally dumb, perhaps a temperature sensor with a simple linear circuit to put DC on the OT line.

If the light was off, you knew there were three possible conditions:
- The OT cable is plugged in and the rack is not on fire.
- The OT cable is not plugged in and the rack is not on fire.
- The OT cable is not plugged in, but unfortunately the rack is on fire.

If the light was on, however, you knew two things were true:
- The OT cable is plugged in, and the rack is on fire.

 

[Footer]

The overtemp light is the button in the middle of the panel where a monitor could be. Last time I checked, the overtemp light did not work on this console....

 

[derekleffew]

... Does it really matter which dimmers a TV studio goes with? ...

Do you want the most popular dimmer in the world?
Is a proven track record, since 1992, important to you?
Are you willing to take the chance that your dimmer line will be discontinued, leaving you "marooned" with no support except by third parties?
How important is 24/7/365 customer service to you?
Ask your electrical contractor which would cost less in labor to install.
Does the physical size and shape of the rack matter?

Dimmers aren't elegant, and shouldn't be flashy, but they ARE important.

Strand Lighting and Electronic Theatre Controls both make excellent products, which are generally regarded as significantly above that of the nearest competitor.

 

[starksk]

I comment only to answer Steve's question. Obviously my comments on which manufacturer is better would be biased.

...Begs the question does Eos/Ion/Element have feedback in realtime of the AF functions of the Sensor racks ?. Can't remember reading anything in the manual, though I might have skipped it as I don't have AF.

Yes it most certainly does! Select a channel or address and press [About]. From page 273 of the Eos Manual (pg. 251 of the Ion Manual):

{Sensor AF} - appears when the current address is patched to a dimmer in an ETC Sensor rack.
Sensor feedback must be enabled.
{Sensor AF} displays the following information:
• Sensor dimmer name
• Dimmer module type
• Rack/Position
• Rack dimmer level (displayed as a percentage)
• Rack dimmer source
{Sensor AF} displays the following information, which can be modified from Eos:
• Mode
• Curve
• Threshold
• Scale Minimum
• Scale Maximum
• Preheat
• Preheat Timing
• Advanced Features (AF)
The following buttons will also be displayed:
• {Set Dimmer} sets that dimmer to an intensity.
• {Unset Dimmer} unsets a dimmer.
• {Clear Errors} clears any dimmer errors that are present for that address.

Important things to note are that you must be using CEM+ running version 3.0 or later and that while you can clear errors generally, there are some errors that may reappear if the conditions that have caused the error remain, and some errors are only able to be cleared at the CEM+.

 

[FMEng]

I'm a radio engineer, but I have hung around a few TV studios. Some TV studios don't use dimmers at all for lighting control. Instead, they use plain, old switches.

The reason for this is that dimming lights changes the color temperature. The color temp of all the lights need to match well, or it'll drive the video people nuts. Cameras are very sensitive to that. Another reason for no dimming is the widespread use of fluorescent lights for big, diffuse lighting that are kind to people's faces.

 

[Rob]

As a practical matter, I would recommend the Ethernet route for lighting communications between the console and dimmers, but be aware that it pretty much ties you to a console and dimmers from one manufacturer.

There is no reason Ethernet routing should tie you to a given manufacturer. Aside from Ethernet nodes that provide multi-protocol support, you should be asking when streaming ACN (not ACN) will be supported by your console and
dimmers.

E1.31 streaming ACN is now an accepted standard, and you should be pushing for it. ETC consoles and dimmers already use it. The C21, if it doesn't already, is certainly upgradable to it.

E1.17 ACN does a lousy job of dealing with DMX-only equipment. E1.31 streaming ACN was developed specifically to provide a standard way of dealing with all that legacy gear, which frankly is just about everything any of us own at the moment.

...getting down off my soapbox now...

Robert Armstrong
Technical Sales
Pathway Connectivity