I'm currently in the process of making some upgrades to our sound system in our PAC.We are upgrading our Yamaha M2500 mixing console to a Behringer x32 and getting some new QSC KLA12 power speakers. We currently have the board feeding to a Crown USM 810 Digital Signal Processors which then goes into our Crown CL series amplifiers. When I switch over to the digital board and power speakers, would I still need the use of the DSP? Wasn't sure if we still need the use of the DSP since we do plan on keeping two of our ten Crown CL amplifiers to power any stage monitors we add or if the new digital board will be able to provide the DSP needed.
Mixers/Consoles DSP Technology
- Thread starterTom F
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Fountain Of Euph
Active Member
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
jkowtko
Well-Known Member
The less you have in the signal chain the better. So if there is a specific feature that the DSP has that you can't get the X32 to handle, then I would use the DSP.
Even if you don't use it, don't get rid of it -- keep it in the closet for those shows where you might need to do something different with the sound.
Even if you don't use it, don't get rid of it -- keep it in the closet for those shows where you might need to do something different with the sound.
Fountain Of Euph
Active Member
For the price range, the X32 has many features that are excellent. I work in a academic space, so I need a console thats intuitive but powerful. I started on a LS9, and have mixed on everything from a one chan mackie to big DiGiCo boards (once) and feel it fits the needs of many multi use spaces very well.
And the digital scribble scripts...
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
That hasn't been my experience. I would say that someone has adjusted the brightness and contrast of the scribble strips. I wouldn't say the X32 is perfect, but it sounds good and is a very capable console. If your shows with one fell short, I would consider other possible factors.
The "My speakers don't need EQ" trend of recent is some mythical fallacy and anyone who says otherwise should be taken out back and their eardrums removed.
For whatever the reason, manufacturers are trying to push "No EQ Necessary" as a marketing ploy, but everyone's speakers need some baseline EQ. Even if your speakers are flat (they're not), you need some articulate EQ and time alignment on your system that is purely for speaker and room acoustics correction.
You absolutely want your room EQ separate from your mix EQ. What happens when the room EQ is in the console is someone inevitably gets their greasy paws into the room EQ and tweaks it to their taste. Which is absolutely not what it's meant for. In Ye Olde Days of passive speakers, I've seen this blow up drivers when the mix engineer tries to ride the room processing for their own personal taste. Your powered speakers will have a self-protection mode, but the point remains the same. You don't want someone dicking around with your room EQ and then not finding out until halfway through sound check that nothing sounds quite right. By then, if you fix the room EQ, everything sound checked up to that point would need to be rechecked.
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As for particular hardware, QSC is coming out with a Core 110f DSP that's meant primarily for conference rooms which makes it very cost-effective, and gives you enough ins and outs to do some time alignment and EQ. Should be shipping in the next month or two. Also gives you some strong gain-sharing mixer options if you decide to add a "Quick Mix" system separate of your console. The next step-up from QSC is the Core 250, which is overkill for what you need both in price and in features.
Biamp's TesiraFORTE options are a good alternative.
If price is a problem, Stewart Audio has a DSP4x4 unit. Crude, but effective. No frills, but it's cost-effective for several hundred bucks and gives you the most essential knobs and cranks.
Whatever you do, get a professional in there to tune the system armed with a calibrated measurement mic and RTA capable of averaged sampling. None of this "I have an app on my iPhone" stuff. I've done the iPhone app thing in a pinch when no other options were available to me, but it's an inferior measurement technique. Even using an external measurement mic with the app.
Another facet of tuning is positioning and aiming the speakers. Ideally the aim points would be roughed in based on a digital acoustical model, but even the speaker placement and hanging in a digital model will only get you close. Aiming will need to be tweaked during tuning.
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Re: Surround Sound, DSP for surround sound isn't much different than for main Left/Right configurations. A separate surround sound processor like you'd have in a home theatre is required if you're stripping the surround off of a film, and then your DSP does the room EQ and alignment but no surround processing. Mostly what it means is you need a DSP with more spigots if you need to drive more channels of speakers. More attention is required during tuning to ensure the speakers from each position have sufficient coverage throughout the seating areas.
For whatever the reason, manufacturers are trying to push "No EQ Necessary" as a marketing ploy, but everyone's speakers need some baseline EQ. Even if your speakers are flat (they're not), you need some articulate EQ and time alignment on your system that is purely for speaker and room acoustics correction.
You absolutely want your room EQ separate from your mix EQ. What happens when the room EQ is in the console is someone inevitably gets their greasy paws into the room EQ and tweaks it to their taste. Which is absolutely not what it's meant for. In Ye Olde Days of passive speakers, I've seen this blow up drivers when the mix engineer tries to ride the room processing for their own personal taste. Your powered speakers will have a self-protection mode, but the point remains the same. You don't want someone dicking around with your room EQ and then not finding out until halfway through sound check that nothing sounds quite right. By then, if you fix the room EQ, everything sound checked up to that point would need to be rechecked.
--
As for particular hardware, QSC is coming out with a Core 110f DSP that's meant primarily for conference rooms which makes it very cost-effective, and gives you enough ins and outs to do some time alignment and EQ. Should be shipping in the next month or two. Also gives you some strong gain-sharing mixer options if you decide to add a "Quick Mix" system separate of your console. The next step-up from QSC is the Core 250, which is overkill for what you need both in price and in features.
Biamp's TesiraFORTE options are a good alternative.
If price is a problem, Stewart Audio has a DSP4x4 unit. Crude, but effective. No frills, but it's cost-effective for several hundred bucks and gives you the most essential knobs and cranks.
Whatever you do, get a professional in there to tune the system armed with a calibrated measurement mic and RTA capable of averaged sampling. None of this "I have an app on my iPhone" stuff. I've done the iPhone app thing in a pinch when no other options were available to me, but it's an inferior measurement technique. Even using an external measurement mic with the app.
Another facet of tuning is positioning and aiming the speakers. Ideally the aim points would be roughed in based on a digital acoustical model, but even the speaker placement and hanging in a digital model will only get you close. Aiming will need to be tweaked during tuning.
--
Re: Surround Sound, DSP for surround sound isn't much different than for main Left/Right configurations. A separate surround sound processor like you'd have in a home theatre is required if you're stripping the surround off of a film, and then your DSP does the room EQ and alignment but no surround processing. Mostly what it means is you need a DSP with more spigots if you need to drive more channels of speakers. More attention is required during tuning to ensure the speakers from each position have sufficient coverage throughout the seating areas.
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TimmyP1955
Well-Known Member
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