The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

Electro Controls 3201-3214 ERS

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by derekleffew, Sep 26, 2007.

  1. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,377
    Likes Received:
    2,754
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    To Ship/Steveterry/Jmabray/other "old-timers":

    Has anyone ever used such an animal? Those guys in Utah must have been smokin' some crazy mushrooms in the '70s!

    While perusing my recently acquired copy of Photometrics Handbook by Robert C. Mumm (which I'm slightly disappointed in, BTW), I came across this line of ERS fixtures which use a 500w or 1000w PAR64/NSP as a light source. According to the footnotes, for the 3201, 36°: "This unusual instrument uses a 500 or 1000 W. PAR 64 lamp for a source, with an 8x18 step lens to gather and concentrate the light, and an 8x4.5 lens to focus it." All use an 8x18 step lens, other models use 2x 6x16; 1x 8x11; 2x6x20; and 1x 6x18 as the final lens. Output for these fixtures seems dismal, even with the 1000w lamp, compared to the comparable 360Q EHG-750w. Cut sheets say they have a gobo slot, or you could order the iris model without shutters, but I can't imagine achieving a sharp focus without an ellipsoidal reflector. Should it even be called an ERS if it uses, by the lamp's definition, a parabolic reflector?

    This, from a more recent thread, may be a picture of the fixture:
    [​IMG]
    http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/facility/2347-post-pic-your-theater-tech-stuff-2.html#post133219

    Once again, I applaud EC's ingenuity, and pity their demise. Anyone want to talk of the Parellipsphere, which was widely touted, though seldom seen, when I was studying stage lighting in college. Or of the audacity to name a control system the "Playmate" during Hugh Hefner's sexual revolution of the 1970s?

    Food for thought. Have a Grand Day!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2011
  2. Grog12

    Grog12 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    172
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Yes....I despise EC with a vengeance matched only by my hatred of Leprecon...Do yourself a favor and if you ever see one accidently drop it.
     
  3. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    9,401
    Likes Received:
    1,799
    Location:
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Never seen one myself, but my guess is they were made so that the huge par rigs there were touring around the country only had to carry one lamp. It seems a rather stupid thing to do because I am sure the optics were terrible, but at the time I am sure it seamed like a get idea. Could have been one of the first "one lamp to rule them all" thing like ETC is now doing.

    Now with the Parallipshere... really they are a pretty good fixture, only problem is they are HUGE. Also the method for zooming/focusing took some serious time to get used to. The last theatre that I knew that had them took them out of service about 8-10 years ago, they had been using them for nearly 20 years.
     
  4. DarSax

    DarSax Active Member

    Messages:
    606
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Bethesda MD
    Though I've since graduated, we have a full rig of Parellipspheres (thats the spelling, yo) back at my high school. Big tanks, weird focus, really annoying to bench, general ew. When I saw "electro controls" in the title of this thread, my eyes lit up :D
     
  5. rmarston

    rmarston Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Salt Lake Ciity, UT
    Yes, unfortunatley I have used them - The design even back in the day was lacking - by todays standards they're just garbage.
     
  6. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,377
    Likes Received:
    2,754
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    I'd love to own a Parallipshere for my personal collection. Do you think they'd swap for one S4 or PAR64LED? I'd pay shipping both ways.
     
  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,377
    Likes Received:
    2,754
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Now don't be snobbish. I've had lots of success (and some failures) with Leprecon gear. Just last year a Lep 12x2.4 pack saved my posterior when two different Sensor SR6 packs decided to misbehave (CEMs improperly configured).

    When in college the EC 3466 was a better alternative than the Kliegl, Capitol, Century, or Altman 6"FS of the time. And I've had one hanging on the unistrut in my garage for the past 13 years.


    And I have accidentally dropped a Source4-26° but I swear it committed suicide by jumping out of the scissor lift I was in from 22' above carpet. Pieces/parts were found in the next ballroom over! Luckily it was a PRG rental unit, and that's what the Collision Damage Waiver is for, right? Immediately we instituted a policy of laying them down in the lift instead of standing them up.

    I heard a good one recently; I think I've told this before. Over the walkie: "The problem is not with the console. The problem is between the chair and the table." Being dense, I ask back, "oh, so it was a cable?"
     
  8. Grog12

    Grog12 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    172
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Its not so much being snobbish as having had the misfortune of programming their boards both as a programmer and a designer.
     
  9. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,346
    Likes Received:
    485
    Occupation:
    Prop-tart
    Location:
    Chicago
    The Leprechon boards are ok if your a small theatre looking for a two-scene.
    However, I am way more fond of their dimmers than their boards. Also, they happen to be the parent company of Littlelite.

    I have nothing against EC scoops, they're scoops!

    The gel frame holders on their PAR 64's dont like to stay on however, and I've yet to experience their other products.

    What ever happened to EC? Were they purchased by ETC? I can't remember.
     
  10. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,377
    Likes Received:
    2,754
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Electrol Controls was purchased by Strand in the late 1980s.
     
  11. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,346
    Likes Received:
    485
    Occupation:
    Prop-tart
    Location:
    Chicago
    What did they do with the EC product line?
     
  12. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    369
    Location:
    Illinois
    So Strand was the origional Borg of a company it would seem and I remember. Beyond that, not much help on my part but below my thoughts.


    Sorry, wasn’t following this post... I have seen this type of fixture before... never worked with one but seen them - they are kind of artistic in design but I never had a chance to use them in the field. Would love to have one, want to trade a 6" Fresnel for one?

    No doubt this fixture was monumental for it’s time - remember back to high school in the mid 1980's myself where the LD wanted to replace the radial Centuries with just plain barbaric PAR 64's. For his design ability it wouldn’t have made much a difference, but for the general program... art verses... But still in lamps and fixture efficiency, given the PAR 64 was in many ways more efficient than the radial Leko, perhaps not so much who was smoking what on the mind but where as an offshoot for the industry it was going early on before it went axial Leko, much less S-4, this fixture was viable as a pre-modern concept - sort of side step on the ladder to evolution.


    Interesting your fixture to work with. Since the Thorn/GE HX-156 that than became the 1.2Kw GFA series of lamp wasn’t invented yet I believe at the time, perhaps if the fixture is in good condition, you can use the 1.2Kw range of PAR 64 lamps for the fixture in competing with your EHG lamps. .... why are you using EHG lamps instead of GLA or GLE lamps??? Still beyond this and very important is that Osram will be coming out with their "Alumi-PAR" series of lamp some time theoretically next year in a PAR 64 size. Did some advising on that next series of lamp and hopefully you will be able to have a 575w/115v PAR 64 lamp if not 750w/115v PAR 65 lamp for use on this fixture that just might match up to some extent with your EHG based fixtures. Wait a few more months and it's feasible in concept that there will be a useful upgrade lamp beyond higher wattage thus bulk power. The Osram Alumi-PAR PAR 64 lamps are coming... Don't know yet what they will be in wattage and voltage type but they will be great lamps. Play tested the PAR 56 version, it's a good thing.

    Anyway, there might be an upgrade in addition to washing the lenses and .. Having never worked with the fixture is it possible to bench focus them? Could be a factor if adjustable.

    None the less, in dealing with them, it’s your job to make art. You make art no matter the limitations, you know how to do it no matter what you have to work with. Learn and master what you have.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2007
  13. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,377
    Likes Received:
    2,754
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Ship, and I mean this with the utmost of respect, I believe you to be confused. You can go off on a tangent/rant even faster than myself!

    To recap for you:
    In my original post I asked about the EC ERS that took a PAR lamp and if anyone had ever used one. rmarston stated he had indeed used them and confirmed my suspicion of their lack of performance. I also referenced the Parallipshere as a fixture that was perhaps ahead of its time, and DarSax and Footer4321 replied with the same experiences and opinions as me. In a later post, I referenced the EC 6"FS, and gafftapegreenia brought up EC scoops and PAR cans.

    I think you're discussing both the PAR ERS and the Parallipshere at the same time, and confusing them and me. I think it's safe to say that no one here uses either fixture currently (other than DarSax's former HS) and I doubt that all that many of either were ever built in the first place.


    As for Strand being the original Borg, one must give them credit for putting the Century name first, if only for a short time, once Strand bought Century in the 1970s. Berkey put its name first when it bought Colortran, as did Lee, as did NSI, as did Leviton. At least Genlyte is attempting to have its brands keep their individual identity on the surface. I weep a little when any brand dies, yes even Kliegl, because there haven't been that many since the invention of the electric light source, and all gave us many years of workable equipment.

    I know you feel much the same way as I do, based on your previous comments regarding modifying/restoring "antique" fixtures.

    Confused less now? More? Or maybe it's me.
     
  14. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    369
    Location:
    Illinois
    perhaps confusing.

    Main concepts are that there are more efficient PAR 64 lamps coming to the market soon so if what ever the ERS is is using a PAR 64 lamp, it should be possible to make it more efficient soon.

    After that about Stand buying up brands, that's a sort of history and less to the point. About the fixture, hang onto them and see what the new lamps will do for you. Won't be S-4 or other but perhaps makes a decently efficient fixture.
     
  15. gordonmcleod

    gordonmcleod Active Member

    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    canada
    In canada ElectroControls was branded Control Lighting based in Calgary Ab with Distribulite being the rep in the east
    Very few or there par fixtures were here in the Toronto Area but the Parellipshere was very common
    It had issues with certain brands of bulbs with the shoulder of the procelain socket blocking the filament from going in far enough in the reflector to get to the focus
    Of interest the secondary reflector was first used I believe on the Strand Pat23 and the Furse clone of it
    The first application of a spherical front reflector to my knowledge was in the Zeiss Ikon Xensol 2 and 3 Xenon lamphouses
     
  16. church

    church Active Member

    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    Canada
    Yes the Paraelipsphere was very common in Canada, I own 5 and with the EGG and EGJ lamp once correctly bench focused they have an even distribution - shorter than the S4 and colortran 5-50s but slightly heavier.

    Hi Derek if you want to trade let me know - I don't like having odd numbers of fixtures I like to keep them in breeding pairs. I have used them on the stage and there are much worse fixtures out there some of which are still available new. One of those bright ideas (pun intended) that did not work out in practice as well as it did on the drawing board. However we often learn more from things that don't work out the way we intended than from the things that do. However it is a usable fixture when cleaned and bench focused.

    Re the front reflector yes I agree the Strand Patt 23 was the first example of this being used - this fixture was the S4 of its day. The next manufacturer to use the front reflector that I am aware of is Furse in the early 70s in their own version of the patt23 and then in the early 80s CCT (Colin, Colin, Terry - you have to love this way of naming companies JANDS is another) introduced it as an upgrade in their Silhouette range. Note CCT will sell you the front reflector as a spare part which you can retrofit into an older fixture. By the way I am not including the Furse badged versions of the Patt23 in this list because Furse bought these items from Strand. I have only seen one of these in the "metal" whiile in Canada and that was the University of Toronto in one of their studios.
     
  17. gordonmcleod

    gordonmcleod Active Member

    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    canada
    Furse did there own castings for the profile spot in scotland
    as a side note there 8" fresnel was a far better fixture than the strand pat 223
     
  18. dramatech

    dramatech Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    111
    Occupation:
    MASTER ELECTRICIAN
    Location:
    Winter Haven, FL
    The question was asked, but not answered, what happen to the Eletro Control line of products when they were purchased by Strand. Most all of the product line was dropped and the earlier Electro control factory, previously Arial Davis, became the manufactures of the Strand Architectural line of dimmers.
     
  19. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,377
    Likes Received:
    2,754
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    As a matter of fact, Strand retired its own architectural control line, Environ, and re-used the name of EC's top of the line console, Premiere. (To this day, the only console with a "Heads-Up Display." The operator was actually supposed to look through a tilted glass/mirror onto which console information was projected, to see the stage.) I'll have to scan in an advertisement--I don't know anyone who actually saw or operated one.
     
  20. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,957
    Likes Received:
    691
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ooooo I remember that one. Seemed so advanced at the time, until you had a bright look on stage and could see nothing on the screens. Same concept as a teleprompter or HUD in a fighter jet, just had a crappy image off the monitor.

    Big honker of a DESK as well, 3 sided wrap around with 2 HUD's at the side junctions, all at the time the trend was to get the things smaller for touring, so EC completely lost out on the rental market.

    While we are waltzing down memory lane,

    Perhaps Steve Terry would expand on his successful adaptation, while at Production Arts way back when, of a Light Palette desk into a touring version that had external monitors, a separate processor box and a table top facepanel that would all fit into flight cases. THAT was the trend, equally good at touring or a permanent in-house install AND could readily be brought back to a shop for service. I was always curious as to why it was a ProArts venture and why Strand never jumped on it.

    Steve B.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice