Festooning cable for power drops

[JohnD]

There is a new thread at ProSoundWeb forums of people using festooning cable for power drops.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,163793.0.html
This seems really wrong for several reasons but hopefully the real experts at CB* will be along to give the proper answer.

* I am primarily referring to the two Steves, @STEVETERRY & @SteveB .

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Interesting. I agree with reply #4.

 

[RonHebbard]

There is a new thread at ProSoundWeb forums of people using festooning cable for power drops.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,163793.0.html
This seems really wrong for several reasons but hopefully the real experts at CB* will be along to give the proper answer.

* I am primarily referring to the two Steves, @STEVETERRY & @SteveB .

I began using this cable within "drag chains", both rated plastic and metallic, in the early to mid nineties during my time building and installing custom AC Servo automated systems. At the time, our shop was in a 40,000 square foot building with three overhead cranes spanning the 100' width of the building and rolling the 400' length. Power running the length of the building was via rigid copper bus bars and rated brushes while cabling running across the gantries was safety yellow festoon. The festoons ranged from 6 conductor 600 Volt rated 6 gauge to (I've forgotten) When the building was originally erected, each of the three cranes would have had an operator living in its cab. By the time we were leasing the building, all three cranes were being operated from pendants hung approximately 6' AFF via an approved supporting cable.
To get back to the festoon cables: I learned from my favorite cable supplier that I could purchase festoon cable in not only safety yellow but also in matte black. Theater LOVES matte black thus I looked into it. For one project I needed 12 gauge / 20 conductors. I found I was able to purchase 8 x 12 gauge and 12 x 12 gauge for a total of 20 x 12 gauge. Both festoons were in matte black jackets and fit within the space available within our drag chains along with our AC servo drive cable, resolver, brake and absolute limit cables.
NO I would NOT route them across floors, under foot and / or under carpet.
Yes they each contained a green jacketed conductor.
No my supplier could not find a North American manufacturer. All of the black jacketed festoon cable was imported from Europe. That's pretty much the extent of my knowledge on this subject.
This blind old geezer's crawling back into his dark hole.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[SteveB]

Lex Products makes a flat 6 circuit multi,

http://www.lexproducts.com/products...x-6-circuit-19-pin-flat-multi-cable-extension

Says it's "Extra hard usage", so SO compliant. Expensive from what I've heard.

And you confuse me with another Steve, I am only able to quote the "real" expert, Mr. Terry.

 

[ship]

Lex I believe also sells a 8/5 flat cable for under carpet use. I know I have bought one before, might have been from another supplier - am sure it was not festoon. This all in addition to actual 12/3 flat cable for convention center floor use.

 

[porkchop]

Yah the SO requirement if the first reason that comes to mind why this is a bad idea. I can see why it seems like a good idea for low profile cable to walk over, but there's noting to tell you how resilient the insulation is so you can't assume it's up to the Extra Hard Usage standard.

 

[Les]

This blind old geezer's crawling back into his dark hole.

Lol, I love your sense of humor and attitude. I'm glad you're so active in sharing your knowledge and experiences with us.

 

[derekleffew]

/off-topic

... back into his dark hole.

Is Uranus a dark hole? Shouldn't it be an assteroid?
May the force be with you.

 

[RonHebbard]

I began using this cable within "drag chains", both rated plastic and metallic, in the early to mid nineties during my time building and installing custom AC Servo automated systems. At the time, our shop was in a 40,000 square foot building with three overhead cranes spanning the 100' width of the building and rolling the 400' length. Power running the length of the building was via rigid copper bus bars and rated brushes while cabling running across the gantries was safety yellow festoon. The festoons ranged from 6 conductor 600 Volt rated 6 gauge to (I've forgotten) When the building was originally erected, each of the three cranes would have had an operator living in its cab. By the time we were leasing the building, all three cranes were being operated from pendants hung approximately 6' AFF via an approved supporting cable.
To get back to the festoon cables: I learned from my favorite cable supplier that I could purchase festoon cable in not only safety yellow but also in matte black. Theater LOVES matte black thus I looked into it. For one project I needed 12 gauge / 20 conductors. I found I was able to purchase 8 x 12 gauge and 12 x 12 gauge for a total of 20 x 12 gauge. Both festoons were in matte black jackets and fit within the space available within our drag chains along with our AC servo drive cable, resolver, brake and absolute limit cables.

Readers MAY question my preference for matte black festoon cables over the more readily available safety yellow when I was enclosing the festoon cables within black drag chain. When you enclose cables within drag chains, the colors of the jackets within the drag chains remain visible, to a limited extent, through the openings within the sides of the flexible chains. If the drag chains are out of sight, below deck level within an automated touring deck for example, the safety yellow jackets are no problem. If the black drag chain is within patrons' sightlines, the safety yellow "stripes" as it were, peering out through the gaps in the drag chain's side walls become more of a distraction. Even more so if/when the drag chain is in motion. When all cable jackets within the black drag chain are black (and preferably matte black) they draw less attention to themselves and not pulling attention from the talent is always a good thing. (Other than within some 'magic acts' when momentary distractions are the name of the game)
Aging geezer out.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[RickR]

Yah the SO requirement if the first reason that comes to mind why this is a bad idea. I can see why it seems like a good idea for low profile cable to walk over, but there's noting to tell you how resilient the insulation is so you can't assume it's up to the Extra Hard Usage standard.

I recall a special code exception for convention centers/ trade shows using flat cables. And something about 2 types of flat cable depending on venue. Sorry I don't have time to dig it out.

 

[STEVETERRY]

There is a new thread at ProSoundWeb forums of people using festooning cable for power drops.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,163793.0.html
This seems really wrong for several reasons but hopefully the real experts at CB* will be along to give the proper answer.

* I am primarily referring to the two Steves, @STEVETERRY & @SteveB .

The cable in the photograph gives me no information that would suggest that this cable is approved for use in portable cord sets in NEC article 518,520, 525, or 530 venues. There is no cable type in the marking that appears in NEC table 400.4 "VW-1" is simply an optional flame rating for the cable.

As to flat cables for extension cords, these are Listed under UL category code XNRU for trade show applications. The Lex Products flat cable terminated with parallel blade NEMA 5-15 connectors presumably has this type of listing. The UL Guide Information for XNRU is here:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1075129227&sequence=1

The most interesting requirement for XNRU is this:

"This category covers accessories consisting of equipment that is complete and is specifically and solely for use in the tradeshow industry as peripheral or related devices. This includes convention-center cord sets."

That means that XNRU "Convention Center Cord Sets" cannot be used in other venues.

Also, the XNRU flat cable is the only extra-hard usage flat cable that I know of.

And here's another interesting Guide Information for Tradeshow Equipment:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1075129227&sequence=1


ST

 

[DavidJones]

That Flat cable comes in several variants as well as "stringer boxes". You can use L21/20 or L21/30( with appropriate breakers and connectors) and plug in the boxes as you get to each booth, they usually have a couple of duplex outlets and are color coded by phase. I see these run on the floor before they lay carpet over the whole thing.

Some of mentioned putting cables in cable ramp(yellow jackets) as a better solution. Cable ramps, by the manufacturers' specification, are only designed to protect cable. They are not approved to cover walkways and don't meet any standard or codes. Now don't get me wrong, I use cable ramps all the time, and I personally for convention center floors, I don't see any issue with covering flat cable or a couple XLRs with carpet, usually, you can hardly tell its under there.

Flat cables are a PITA to deal with though, and can not go around corners. Sometimes they are great, most times they suck to deal with.

 

[RonHebbard]

That Flat cable comes in several variants as well as "stringer boxes". You can use L21/20 or L21/30( with appropriate breakers and connectors) and plug in the boxes as you get to each booth, they usually have a couple of duplex outlets and are color coded by phase. I see these run on the floor before they lay carpet over the whole thing.

Someone mentioned putting cables in cable ramps (yellow jackets) as a better solution. Cable ramps, by the manufacturers' specification, are only designed to protect cable. They are not approved to cover walkways and don't meet any standard or codes. Now don't get me wrong, I use cable ramps all the time, and I personally for convention center floors, I don't see any issue with covering flat cable or a couple XLRs with carpet, usually, you can hardly tell its under there.

Flat cables are a PITA to deal with though, and can not go around corners. Sometimes they are great, most times they suck to deal with.

@DavidJones IMHO Festoon cables are absolutely fabulous when hung on tracks festoon style, as intended, and / or when routed within rated and approved drag chains, often within automated systems and often associated with AC and / or DC servo drives.
P.S. I'm pleased to note you've already figured out "This is a "great site." It was "great" before either of us got here and likely will continue to be long after we're both gone.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.