First Time Installing Mover

[jdbliese]

Hey guys!

I'm new to the group and I'm desperate for advice. Our theatre had just purchased two MAC 2K Profile II (Magnetic Ballast version). I've read the manual up and down and have everything figured out except our power needs. I rated our wall sockets at 120v and checked our EDI Mark V-II which supplies 120/208v. My trouble is: the magnetic ballast versions of these fixtures, as indicated in the manual, are only rated to run between 200v and 240v.

What do I do? I'm not sure how the fixtures would like running on 120v wall power and I've been made wary of using non-dim dimmer packs parked at full on our ETC Ion. What choices do I have to make sure we get these fixtures working ASAP?

Many thanks in desperation,
Jordan B

 

[chawalang]

I have never seen them run on 110VAC now that I think about it.

I always run movers of 208VAC as much as possible. The lamp out put is more efficient that way.

Have you tried running to off 110VAC to see if it will operate? Try powering it up and then striking the lamp and letting it run in test mode for a while.


Under powering a moving light won't do anything bad to it, the fixture just won't operate.
I believe then thing can be said when it comes to a fixture that inly runs off of 110vac and you plug it into 208VAC. Like the VL500 with an onboard dimmer. It wont run on 208VAC so there will be two LED's on the dimmer pack that will just blink indicating it won't run because its receiving 110VAC.

That is an HMI 1200 Watt lamp so if it does run at 110VAC the lamp will not be outputting at its full capacity. Other fixture I have used like the Mac 700 or VL 3500 use the same lamp and I always run them off of 208VAC. I know he fixture has a feature thats if it is shuttered for more then 10 seconds the lamp will ballast down to 700W.

You may need to invest in a small moving light PD and a set of feeder with cam or tail depending on your power situation.

 

[BillESC]

I'd suggest having a licensed electrician to bring the required service to the fixtures.

 

[rsmentele]

I agree with BillESC... If the manual specs 208vac, thats what it needs!

 

[jdbliese]

So our dimmer says it can output 120 and 208, with a non-dim pack parked at full, will the fixture receive the correct voltage?

 

[MNicolai]

So our dimmer says it can output 120 and 208, with a non-dim pack parked at full, will the fixture receive the correct voltage?

I doubt it says it can output 208v. I believe it means the rack can be supplied by 120/208v 3Ø, which still outputs 120v from the dimmers. You would need an electrician to install receptacles for you that are fed from a 120/208v transformer.

 

[llburg]

As someone who's spent much time with a MkVII rack, it doesn't output 208v. The service IN to the rack is 120/208 3ph. All circuits out are connected between a phase and neutral, and therefore 120v.

(I suppose it's possible you have some crazy custom configured rack, but it's highly likely the above is true.)

 

[petercav17]

As to the "parked at full" for constant power- never ever do that. You'll need a non dim card. Even if a dimmer is at full the current will still fluctuate and over time will destroy your fixtures. Use clean 208 v. power. You can get that if youve got a 3 phase disconnect.

 

[len]

As to the "parked at full" for constant power- never ever do that. You'll need a non dim card. Even if a dimmer is at full the current will still fluctuate and over time will destroy your fixtures. Use clean 208 v. power. You can get that if youve got a 3 phase disconnect.

Yes, don't do it. Get an electrician and do it correctly. As long as you're having to do this, I'd run 4 - 6 circuits at various places. Or more, if you can afford it. If budget is an issue, get a disconnect with camlocks. When necessary, rent a 208v distro and the appropriate feeder and socapex cable to get from the distro to the fixtures.

 

[jdbliese]

I suppose the 3 phase disconnect is my best option in terms of budget. Distros and soco looks expensive!

Now just for the sake of learning, what does using dimmer power do to the fixtures exactly? What does a dimmer do differently that makes it dangerous to the fixtures?

 

[Les]

Now just for the sake of learning, what does using dimmer power do to the fixtures exactly? What does a dimmer do differently that makes it dangerous to the fixtures?

From the thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/120v-scr-dimmers-low-voltage-transformers.35491/

Post [HASHTAG]#2[/HASHTAG]

The short version: Dimmers work by chopping the waveform. Transformers do strange things when fed a chopped waveform. Result: unexpected voltage climb at certain settings.
A heavy "resistance" load, such as incandescent lamps, minimizes the effect, but other devices may actually be damaged by the over-voltage.
The waveform produced by a dimmer is called a sawtooth waveform. To be accurate, it is "like" a sawtooth waveform. The sharp rise on the tooth of the waveform causes a very high overshoot on the output winding of the transformer, which may actually ring or resonate. If the transformer is sufficiently damped with a heavy resistive load, the overshoot will not be as bad. The worst thing you want connected is something that converts the output to DC, like the switch mode power supply found in almost everything these days. In those cases, the DC voltage may end up at double the voltage you would expect it to be!

In a nutshell, it's really hard on the fixture's power supply.

 

[JD]

My trouble is: the magnetic ballast versions of these fixtures, as indicated in the manual, are only rated to run between 200v and 240v.

If it is a magnetic ballast, chances are you still have a tap to change at the fixture for operation on 208 vs 240 volts. If the location does not vary, then have an electrician run a direct line to the fixture location. Simple "two hots and a ground" will do. you want a way of cutting power to the fixture without climbing up to it, or relying on flipping a breaker on and off. Remember, circuit breakers should never be used as switches! A simple DPST wall switch would do the trick. Although you are only feeding two hots, which is considered a single phase feed, it will probably come from a panel that is fed 3 phase Wye power, so you want to check the voltage. (208 vs 240) It will probably be 208 volts. Check the manual to see if a tap on the magnetic ballast needs to be set before installing and powering it up. I think the default on this fixture is 208.

One other note: Make sure the power is sufficient to handle any power-factor correction and the higher strike/start-up current. The manual should list the maximum draw in amps. If it is fed from a panel circuit breaker, remember to de-rate it by 20% (20 amp breaker should not be loaded past 16 amps.)

 

[len]

One other thing about an electrician. Make sure the contractor knows about 3-phase, and is experienced at entertainment type installations. Make sure they know how it will get used. You don't want to have to call a second contractor in to fix a mistake.

 

[derekleffew]

... What choices do I have to make sure we get these fixtures working ASAP? ...

IF (big IF) you can get non-dimming modules for your dimmer rack (or find wall receptacles on different phases) you could use this item: http://www.quick220.com/-A220-20L.html , as discussed here: http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/115-volt-ac-to-220-volt-ac.19720 . Due to the load, you'd need one device per fixture, and thus "waste" four wall receptacle circuits total. At a total of $420 for two devices plus probably some extra connectors and adaptors, you likely wouldn't be saving much if any over having a licensed electrician properly install two L6-20 outlets and breakers.

Should have bought the electronic ballast version of the MAC2000, which can run on 120V, requiring 16.3A. But you'd still need to address the non-dim, never through a dimmer, constant power issue.