Help - Using New to Talk to Old

[Kevin Darby]

I have an ETA Imagenation MC1224CM Lighting Control System that controls (4) 8 channel ETA MD824U Digital Dimmers (wall mounted). These dim only 18 various old school par cans. I want to start adding LED units and create scenes using a PC with DMX control software.

I purchased a simple myDMXbuddy USB to DMX interface, but can't get it to work yet to control existing lights.

Any insight would be appreciated. The only reason I thought this system would be able to be controlled by DMX is because the 1224 has a 5-pin DMX512 connector on the back... I believe the main protocol it uses is Ultraplex.

 

[josh88]

You'd have to get something to convert the dmx protocol to ultraplex, it might honestly be cheaper to buy some new dmx shoebox dimmers to replace them. Your old board just has the ability to use ultraplex or dmx, dmx just can't talk directly to the dimmers.

 

[Mac Hosehead]

The manual for these dimmers says that "MD" series dimmers should be DMX capable.
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/STARINMANUALS/ETA/Archive/Dimmer Series.pdf
However from the pictures it looks as if they only have analog or Ultraplex as an input. Doug Fleenor has an interface for Ultraplex dimmers.
http://www.dfd.com/2mpx.html
It looks to be in the $600 range. You could also use a DMX to analog converter but just wiring it up would be quite a chore.

 

[microstar]

You either need to connect the MyDMXbuddy dongle to a DMX to Ultraplex converter box which then connects to the Ultraplex inputs on your dimmers or buy a 32-channel DMX to analog converter to drive the dimmers by their analog DIN jack inputs. If you have hooked up the MyDMXbuddy dongle to the 3-pin Ultraplex input jack on either the console or dimmer pack for testing, you may have damaged the dongle because there is usually a DC voltage on Pin 2 for powering a console with Ultraplex/Microplex/LMX type signals.

There was at one time a company called DMXtools in Elgin, Illinois that manufactured a line of interface boxes, one specifically for DMX to varieties of multiplex protocols including Ultraplex (see photo below) for about $250, but I think they have been out of business for several years now. I believe that Ultraplex was different enough from Microplex or LMX that those converter types would not work, but might be worth a try if you could borrow one.
A DMX to analog converter would not be difficult to install since your dimmer packs are neatly lined up in one place.

 

[RickR]

This may sound simplistic, but I've seen it too many times to ignore.

Are you plugging you dongle into the DMX connector on the console? It is output only!

 

[MaxMtl514]

You won't be able to control this controller with a DMX dongle... It doesn't feature a DMX trigger !
Try straight from the dongle to the dimmers (in/through) with all at the same channel (only if the DMX512 XLR5 jacks did not get killed by the 0-10V option)

 

[microstar]

You won't be able to control this controller with a DMX dongle... It doesn't feature a DMX trigger !
Try straight from the dongle to the dimmers (in/through) with all at the same channel (only if the DMX512 XLR5 jacks did not get killed by the 0-10V option)

If he plugs the DMX dongle into the Ultraplex jacks, the dongle could easily get zapped by a DC voltage on pin 2 of the Ultraplex connector. Not a good idea. There are switches on the dimmer packs that select either Ultraplex or 0-10 input.

 

[MaxMtl514]

If he plugs the DMX dongle into the Ultraplex jacks, the dongle could easily get zapped by a DC voltage on pin 2 of the Ultraplex connector. Not a good idea. There are switches on the dimmer packs that select either Ultraplex or 0-10 input.

Exactly... Just possible if the ''DMX512 XLR5 jacks did not get killed by the 0-10V option''

 

[GreyWyvern]

Hopefully @Kevin Darby will come back to respond and not just take the info we are giving and run.

Kevin - I want to be sure we understand your goal. Also, please don't feel like we are talking down to you, especially since we don't know your background or knowledge. You are wanting to control the existing dimmers and additional LEDs together, correct? As Rick and Max pointed out, connecting the dongle you bought to the controller will do nothing, other than possibly damage the dongle. The dongle is a device that converts the data coming from the lighting control program on a computer into DMX.

If your dimmers can take DMX, as Mac indicated they can, you should be good. Remove and toss the Imagenation controller in a closet to not be used again, hook the DMX output of the dongle into the dimmers, and go. If the dimmers have a DMX output/passthrough, you can daisy-chain to the LEDs or, if more convenient, dongle to DMX splitter, then one line to the dimmers and one (or more) to the LEDs.

If your dimmers can't take DMX, you will need a converter like microstar mentioned. Once again, remove and toss the Imagenation controller in a closet to not be used again. Then it will be dongle to DMX splitter, then one line to the converter going to the dimmers and one (or more) to the LEDs. If you could find the same converter microstar pictured, you wouldn't need a splitter.

There is, of course, the third option. Imagenation controller for the dimmers and computer/dongle for the LEDs, but it sounds like that is what you are trying to get around.

 

[Kevin Darby]

You'd have to get something to convert the dmx protocol to ultraplex, it might honestly be cheaper to buy some new dmx shoebox dimmers to replace them. Your old board just has the ability to use ultraplex or dmx, dmx just can't talk directly to the dimmers.

Thank you for the input and describing how dmx relates to the dimmers and the controller. I was confused wy the controller would have that DMX512 connect.

 

[Kevin Darby]

The manual for these dimmers says that "MD" series dimmers should be DMX capable.
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/STARINMANUALS/ETA/Archive/Dimmer Series.pdf
However from the pictures it looks as if they only have analog or Ultraplex as an input. Doug Fleenor has an interface for Ultraplex dimmers.
http://www.dfd.com/2mpx.html
It looks to be in the $600 range. You could also use a DMX to analog converter but just wiring it up would be quite a chore.

Thank you for that! I wish we could afford the interface and may end up with that option! Thank you.

 

[Kevin Darby]

You either need to connect the MyDMXbuddy dongle to a DMX to Ultraplex converter box which then connects to the Ultraplex inputs on your dimmers or buy a 32-channel DMX to analog converter to drive the dimmers by their analog DIN jack inputs. If you have hooked up the MyDMXbuddy dongle to the 3-pin Ultraplex input jack on either the console or dimmer pack for testing, you may have damaged the dongle because there is usually a DC voltage on Pin 2 for powering a console with Ultraplex/Microplex/LMX type signals.

There was at one time a company called DMXtools in Elgin, Illinois that manufactured a line of interface boxes, one specifically for DMX to varieties of multiplex protocols including Ultraplex (see photo below) for about $250, but I think they have been out of business for several years now. I believe that Ultraplex was different enough from Microplex or LMX that those converter types would not work, but might be worth a try if you could borrow one.
A DMX to analog converter would not be difficult to install since your dimmer packs are neatly lined up in one place.


View attachment 16987

Now that's a good idea to explore! Thank you for your insight.

 

[Kevin Darby]

This may sound simplistic, but I've seen it too many times to ignore.

Are you plugging you dongle into the DMX connector on the console? It is output only!

Actually the dongle is 3 pin and the DMX is 5 pin female, so thankfully I was not able to do that.

 

[Kevin Darby]

Hopefully @Kevin Darby will come back to respond and not just take the info we are giving and run.

Kevin - I want to be sure we understand your goal. Also, please don't feel like we are talking down to you, especially since we don't know your background or knowledge. You are wanting to control the existing dimmers and additional LEDs together, correct? As Rick and Max pointed out, connecting the dongle you bought to the controller will do nothing, other than possibly damage the dongle. The dongle is a device that converts the data coming from the lighting control program on a computer into DMX.

If your dimmers can take DMX, as Mac indicated they can, you should be good. Remove and toss the Imagenation controller in a closet to not be used again, hook the DMX output of the dongle into the dimmers, and go. If the dimmers have a DMX output/passthrough, you can daisy-chain to the LEDs or, if more convenient, dongle to DMX splitter, then one line to the dimmers and one (or more) to the LEDs.

If your dimmers can't take DMX, you will need a converter like microstar mentioned. Once again, remove and toss the Imagenation controller in a closet to not be used again. Then it will be dongle to DMX splitter, then one line to the converter going to the dimmers and one (or more) to the LEDs. If you could find the same converter microstar pictured, you wouldn't need a splitter.

There is, of course, the third option. Imagenation controller for the dimmers and computer/dongle for the LEDs, but it sounds like that is what you are trying to get around.

Dave, thank you. you understand my goals clearly. Im going to attempt to find the converter Microstar mentioned. These dimmers, I think, are the predecessor to the ETA models that can use DMX. Sorry, i've not responded until now... been a busy day.

 

[microstar]

Dave, thank you. you understand my goals clearly. Im going to attempt to find the converter Microstar mentioned. These dimmers, I think, are the predecessor to the ETA models that can use DMX. Sorry, i've not responded until now... been a busy day.

Kevin... if you strike out on this and want to go the DMX to analog route, PM me. I have some DMX/analog converters and the pinout for the ETA DIN connector and could make the cables.

 

[Kevin Darby]

Kevin... if you strike out on this and want to go the DMX to analog route, PM me. I have some DMX/analog converters and the pinout for the ETA DIN connector and could make the cables.

OK, thanks. Can you give me an idea of limitations if any this system will give me? There are 8 dimmer banks in each of the four units. Also, can you give me an idea of the cost for you making up the cables? And what does this connection look like?

 

[microstar]

Kevin-- please go to your Inbox at the top right of this page and you'll have a reply from me. We can continue the conversation there.