Vintage Lighting Identify this light

Scenemaster60

Well-Known Member
I am trying (for no real good reason other than curiosity) to identify this instrument.

My educated guess is that it is a Times Square 8x8 from the late 60s-early 70s.

The lens end of things looks a LOT like the Altman 365 from the same time frame but the lamp chimney design is radically different from Altman's design.

Any thoughts?
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that's the way he likes them rotton and ready to shock amongst... in being truly in-tact. Note otherwise in Scenemaster60's Leko the new wiring but, un-sleeved and un-grounded wire coming out of the un-bushed or cord gripped holes also as a problem. It does not derate value to make it safe or to modern standards if done properly.
I diverge from Derek in making all my lights properly wired and safe to todays standards - this even to the extent on really old ones to sleeve modern wiring with a fuzzy braided fiberglass sleeving so as to simulate the asbestos. Than for the fixture, if in decent shape, to preserve the rest of the fixture body, or attempt to reproduce it in factory paint. For the gizzards and parts to the best I can in reproduction... fully restored if not better if needed to correct a problem. Every screw and hole re-tapped or replaced with similar or out of standard better if important. Etc. factory spec or better in even fabricating missing parts. I have also sent some antiques out over the years as operable but re-lamped for a modern lamp. Takes a few hours at times to re-bench focus and convert a fixture designed for say a 1948 2M/T30/1 or 3M/T32/2 to a CYX, amongst other lamps like Mogul Screw 1Kw - G-40 fixtures converted to Medium Screw 400G/SP. Once you know seat height and bench focus.... just math and adjustments in even going LED for making old gear with lamps no longer made serviceable. Lots of tinkering with bench focus after that.

As above, will have to check my hole patterns, don't think I have one of these in 8" and might not even the 6" version Derek displays but might. (So many similar lights of the period). One of these days when I have time I'll take a photo of each light I have like the 8" above in showing just about all important details so as easier to match inventory with light.

Not a Kliegl or LECO brand - oval holes during this period amongst other details. So far thinking Century, Hub or Altman, all based off the 1950 Kliegl #1365E concept of the lamp cap retaining yoke and cast aluminum lamp cap. Dates it between say 1950 and 1962 so far. Bringing up research from about two years ago in thinking about such lights..., not LEKO brand - they were steel lamp caps excepting the #807 but with oval vent holes. Not Kliegl, they were oval holes and other details. Times Square I have less seen - your location says probably not that brand anyway. Other brand, probably not.

Hinge to me says Century, I have a Hub #8765 but it's 8x23 and I think slightly longer and later than yours. Hub bounces around a lot in design though - depends on what design they bought out from someone else. Hub bought both Century and Altman designs amongst other patterns. I have a 8" 60's Altman #366 similar to a 360 series, but this light you have could be the earlier 8" version of the origional 6" Altman #3300 which is also Century similar and Hub was later selling it I think. Again will have to check out hole patterns if I get time in the morning. Given no decals from Hub - at least pre-1968 from anyone. Paint.... really difficult to define amongst them during this period.

Often the primary difference between a Altman 360 and say a Hub #8763 is that Hub apparently bought out old Altman radial castings for the pineapple - probably about the time Altman switched to the 360Q version. Such castings were used and abused. All Hub pineapples I have seen so far (many of them) have rough sharp edges to the venting holes. This probably would be similar with most Altman gear they continued making if a 8" version, but possibly not with what they bought out from Century. I don't know of a 8" 1957 Altman Leko but posible, or would eliminate that as a brand. Hub mostly sold 10 to 20 year out of date direct copies of other brand's design of lighting equipment. Not a big deal for Fresnel, big deal for a Leko in real value - as with castings, other parts were slightly substandard. Look at the Hub catalog on line and see a 6" octagon radial Century design I think from around 1938 that Hub was still selling into the mid-60's. Might even see your 8" Leko in the various catalogues on this website. Not a lot of detail in description in the catalogue, but if you go thru them all sometimes enough detail.

What lamp and lamp socket type is in it? No real stamping of part numbers at this point on the fixture.... hard to tell. I will check museum if time or later.
 
I had a bunch of a very similar fixtures in high-school they were supplied as original equipment to the venue in 1964. had medium bi-post lamps BBU 750w t16 if i recall right. that is not a lamp adjustment screw on the chimney it just held the lamp cap in place. there is an index notch in edge of the cap they had a dark brown wrinkle finish paint. no visible name or other markings.
did have drama mask knobs, but i think the supplier (stagecraft industries) added those as they also did the rigging and all other theatrical items for the venue.


http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/another-name-that-light-thread.30424/#post-270136
 
Not a Kliegl or LECO brand - oval holes during this period amongst other details.
Here are the two lights I bought from Clyde's estate.
clydes_lights.jpg

I thought, from the other thread, we had determined them to be the Lighting Equipment Co. (LECO) brand. The one on the left is a medium bi-post socket, the right a medium prefocus. Other slight differences, but more similarities. FWIW, both have the "LECO-0803" clamp (of course, clamps can be and often are exchanged).
 
Here is my inventory notes and a photo of some of my duplicate fixtures at home. What a mess....

Derek on the left you have a LECO #1700, I have a #807 or Grand Stage/LECO 7A-110 on the left in my photo. (Base was changed to E-26 so I would have to further investigate which in unless CB notes found almost starting over.) In the middle for me is a Kliegl #1365E. On the right of your photo as with one I looked at today at work from a distance (amongst all lights listed below next to each other and others); the one you have is either a Altman #3300 or Hub #8764 and visa versa with the one in the photo of surplus lights at home on the right posted here. The one at home has a P-28s lamp socket which don't help determine which is which.

Just searched some of my email drafts in that the ones at home were to go to JSU given there might have been an inventory saved specifying what I have in the photo. No luck. Don't even remember where I found the info on LECO bramd part numbers and defining which were them or if one version had the aluminum lamp cap - think one did. Probably was a large discussion on CB even with link posted to LECO, where that info was found. This was three years ago since the last time I worked on this - how time flies given a baby right around this time in not having better notes, plus lots more inventory worked on. Daric might still also be able to pull up a email on what I sent him which would answer the question.

If the one on the right in my photo is the Altman, than most likely Scenemaster60's light is a Hub and will be found searching the on-line Hub catalogue. Think I remember JSU wanting a Altman in my photo. Otherwise, Derek you have the Altman #3300 and Scenemaster60 has a Altman 3400 8x9 Leko. Unfortunately Altman archive isn't working in showing the info needed. Shame also in last year I had an Altman rep. in, he took photos and was very interested in seeing their first Leko, but sent them to someone to confirm. Never got back in confirming. Will have to find his business card and that's another way to figure out which is which.

By the way I forgot to post last week an email sent to Altman dealers about the 360Q.... it's discontinued as of the end of this month. Surprised nobody posted about this - it's also on the website. I agree it's time.


9) LECO #1700 6x16 Leko, mid 60's 2nd generation. red shutter handle and lens train knobs, single PC lens.G-22 Medium Bi-Post lamp and P-28s variants. (2x B.Ship.,7x more Clyde’s Estate & changed to E-26 base for resale.)
2) LECO #807 6x16 Leko, c.early-late 50's. Same red shutter and lens train knobs, single PC lens, slightly different in extent of texture paint - P-28s cap. Main difference, yoke mounts horizontal instead of vertical & square nuts inset into the casting for female knob instead of tapped yoke castings. (B.Ship. 1x more Clyde’s Estate Sale.)
5) Grand Stage or LECO #7A-110 6x16 Leko, Late 60's 2nd generation of Hub #1700 if new new brand version. Red shutter handle and lens train knobs, single PC lens.G-22 Medium Bi-Post lamp and P-28s variants. (2x B.Ship., 3x more Clyde’s Estate & changed to E-26 base for resale)

8) ?Altman #3300 or Century or Hub 6" Leko c. 1957, Similar to Kliegl #1365E with different hole patterns & knobs. P-28s Base. (2x B.Ship. 1x Clyde’s Estate +6 converted to E-26 base.)
2) Hub #8764 6" 22 Leko, c. 1950's. P-28s base, similar to the Kliegl #1365E but with different hole patterns. Slightly different knobs. Single lens. One with a Hub Chicago tag in-tact. (B.Ship, other Clyde Estate resale)

4) Kliegl #1365E 6x16 LekoKlieglight (6x16) c.1950; 500T14/8 G-22 Medium Bi-post Lamp.Replaced Focus Center Knob. (2 complete B.Ship, 2 for resale for Clyde Foster’s estate sale.)

 

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