Is this photo a fake?
- Thread starterderekleffew
- Start date
Malabaristo
Well-Known Member
This actually depends on the type of device plugged in. For resistive loads (incandescent lamps, or the space heater mentioned here), you're right that a higher total resistance means less current in the circuit. For something with a switching power supply, however, it will see a lower input voltage (because of the voltage drop across the poor connection) and will then draw more current in order to maintain the same output. Many universal power supplies range down to 85VAC, so you can have a whole lot of voltage drop in that poor connection before the power supply gives up on maintaining it's output.
Even with a space heater you could get a similar result if the person using it decides to turn it up because it's not heating as much as they want...
Jay Ashworth
Well-Known Member
> I'm reminded of 5-15 vs. 5-20: How DO the ampieres KNOW the neutral pin has been rotated 90° and thus can safely carry 25% more current?
As I'm sure you realize, the answer is that code forbids putting 5-20R receptacles on 14AWG wire, so things which *need* 18A continuous can be required to have 5-20P attachment caps and be unable to plug into circuits only wired and 'fused' for 15A (13A continuous).
As I'm sure you realize, the answer is that code forbids putting 5-20R receptacles on 14AWG wire, so things which *need* 18A continuous can be required to have 5-20P attachment caps and be unable to plug into circuits only wired and 'fused' for 15A (13A continuous).
One day my Dauter detected smoke/fire in the lower landing of the house. Been a nightmare for me years ago about the slow fire! Turned out there was a problem both at the outlet in the stairs and switch feeding the garage, and the outlet feeding the garage door operener.... was a question of home owner grade outlet switches and outlets given I was maxing them out. Each when found out to be a problem over a period of issues. including to melted down outlets with similar melted down...
All have been switched out for commercial grade and no further problems unless I turned on air compressor while heater was on in breaker tripping.
In part it's a all be it 15A wiring... concept that for home owner grade outlets or switches that will be complient in working, but also never be the case in maxing them out for that standard. But it is the minimum standard or future standard. Electric vehicles TBA future. Dedicated line - what available breaker to feed it? Than running that specific line, or just future of contractors just plugging into home owner grade systems not ready as I found for real loading in how they were wired and the grade of outlets.
All have been switched out for commercial grade and no further problems unless I turned on air compressor while heater was on in breaker tripping.
In part it's a all be it 15A wiring... concept that for home owner grade outlets or switches that will be complient in working, but also never be the case in maxing them out for that standard. But it is the minimum standard or future standard. Electric vehicles TBA future. Dedicated line - what available breaker to feed it? Than running that specific line, or just future of contractors just plugging into home owner grade systems not ready as I found for real loading in how they were wired and the grade of outlets.
Well... I"ll address this as a workmanship issue, primarily. I've VERY negative about the quality of work I see done by the typical apprentice and a sad, sad number of journeymen.
I just found a 15' NEMA 5-15 cable left at the PAC. From a major 3-letter-company that does LX rentals. Of the 6 set screws, 5 were not even finger tight. Rather than fix it (or even investigate why it didn't work), it was purposely left behind. It's powering my outdoor pet heater now.
In construction I've found all kinds of mis wiring, under-torqued terminals, crimp connections on insulation, all manner of lousy work. It seems to be a combination of "finish this so we can move on" or "nobody give a **** here, just make it look like it's done."
Charging EVs is off topic to our forums but I'll say that anyone having electrical work done should carefully review that work.
jtweigandt
Well-Known Member
Ditto on checking electrical work. I did a kitchen re do about 6 years ago.. In dis assembling, I took out for replacement some outlets and switches we had put in behind the counter maybe 10 years before that. The outlets were all in boxes that just BARELY accomodated the boxy GFI fixtures that they were.. ie.. no way to stuff them in without the wires or screw terminals contacting the metal box.. They were all just wrapped in electrical tape surrounding the whole GFI fixture and stuffed in friction tight. Very lucky that over the years expansion and contraction didn't saw through any of the electrical tape. Might have just shorted arced and tripped.. might have been worse.. and this was a well known local licensed electrical firm.
Three letter company or supervision... This is really hard to ensure work done properly even with proper training in a small area the work has been done in. I do inspections of all my staff's wired gear constantly and demand all taken apart and corrected that they build if I see something wrong. Last week I saw something wrong with someone working for me in strip length on conductors. Good kid and surprized I had to re-educate him. Don't know how much gear he might have mis-wired for strip length in even testing it, but other than the pile of gear he had to re-wire... don't know how long the problem went on. One might think the kid was trained properly, but it can go left.
Was at a IA new venu by chance when they were having a problem on some hoists we were renting to them. They were running at half speed at best in one direction. I was the primary installer at the venu, so the ME asked me to figure out why our rented hoists were having a problem. The Chicago electrical union contractors that had done such great work for the most part all over the venu had mis-wired a L-21-30 outlet in neutral hot. Multi-meter easy troubleshooting... the IA person should have been able to troubleshoot. That the outlet was not tested... another thing.
I'm currently stripping a bunch of Audience blinder fixtures made back a dozen years ago for some tours as per a concept of Lego block banks of them. Collected dust for years now. The wiring and lamps are still in perfect shape for them and can be used on a new pod concept for them for a new tour. Finding a problem in a number of the well built fixtures - tough to take apart... rugged built. Someone on the crew building them didn't understand the well thought out process in making the lights. It was not detected until now. Tension of lamp terminals loose in many instances, and in a few instances the specific grounds for how to do were absolutely done wrong = not grounded... The parts for proper grounding were in use.. just not understood how the parts would work in bonding to the fixture. My Wife supervised the wiring of the fixtures, I overall supervized the construction.... Just one person fell thru the hole in making the fixtures absolutely wrong and didn't get noticed. This person's production rate in not a lot of fixtures mis-wired was also not noted in proper supervision.
Aptitude for training or ready to learn until something immediate to them a problem in learning is something hard to judge in giving someone responsibility to wire or service gear. Bosses have a big and hard role. A single L21-30 outlet as opposed to around 100 at the venu for the only one miswired to screw that up. On my Wife's part... tunnel vision in doing her work and not seeing how someone was doing something, without inspection I would not bring up with her. Kid (adult) in my department who had in proper stirip lengths of cable... That's me and all my other thorughly trained staff in watching out for each other.
A concept of how hard it is to manage proper work, but also striving for it. No, not the three letter company.
Was at a IA new venu by chance when they were having a problem on some hoists we were renting to them. They were running at half speed at best in one direction. I was the primary installer at the venu, so the ME asked me to figure out why our rented hoists were having a problem. The Chicago electrical union contractors that had done such great work for the most part all over the venu had mis-wired a L-21-30 outlet in neutral hot. Multi-meter easy troubleshooting... the IA person should have been able to troubleshoot. That the outlet was not tested... another thing.
I'm currently stripping a bunch of Audience blinder fixtures made back a dozen years ago for some tours as per a concept of Lego block banks of them. Collected dust for years now. The wiring and lamps are still in perfect shape for them and can be used on a new pod concept for them for a new tour. Finding a problem in a number of the well built fixtures - tough to take apart... rugged built. Someone on the crew building them didn't understand the well thought out process in making the lights. It was not detected until now. Tension of lamp terminals loose in many instances, and in a few instances the specific grounds for how to do were absolutely done wrong = not grounded... The parts for proper grounding were in use.. just not understood how the parts would work in bonding to the fixture. My Wife supervised the wiring of the fixtures, I overall supervized the construction.... Just one person fell thru the hole in making the fixtures absolutely wrong and didn't get noticed. This person's production rate in not a lot of fixtures mis-wired was also not noted in proper supervision.
Aptitude for training or ready to learn until something immediate to them a problem in learning is something hard to judge in giving someone responsibility to wire or service gear. Bosses have a big and hard role. A single L21-30 outlet as opposed to around 100 at the venu for the only one miswired to screw that up. On my Wife's part... tunnel vision in doing her work and not seeing how someone was doing something, without inspection I would not bring up with her. Kid (adult) in my department who had in proper stirip lengths of cable... That's me and all my other thorughly trained staff in watching out for each other.
A concept of how hard it is to manage proper work, but also striving for it. No, not the three letter company.
I think it's a combination of this, the fact that people already have accounts and a presence on these sites, and that off topic discussion tends to thread itself away rather than hide the signal in all of the noise.
I've avoided all forms of antisocial media and Redit as well. The S/N ratio is crap and I'd spend more time trying to undo/reeducate the nonsense than make any forward movement. CB is a vastly better use of time and energy.
Okay, and that's why you're here. However to loop back to the question of where all the students have gone: most people don't, which is why most people are not here.
And perception is reality, so the sheer numbers on antisocial media means we lose no matter how wrong it is.
"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here." - Dante Alighieri
See TBA new topic someone or me will present which perhaps should be a new part of the foum.... Problems NEC or Pro Install. Something like that. Much of the above already.
Yesterday I go a request for 18 more 18" on center L6-15 five connector stringers. One plug, in this case 5x in-line outlets stringing along. Appirently the 98x I made under protest over the past 25 years has not sunk in = I know who wants them in being older school than I am without other ideas in solving the problem. Lost the fight over the years in that I know I read.
"In line connectors are not to be used for interconnection of cable wiring devices" Or something like that. Searched the NEC to find that rule that you cannot and should not into a female connector, put two cords into it so as to feed other things. Even asked on this forum at times with a No' it's ok. Perhaps it was proposed code thing I forget in reading the source for.
I presented this project to one of my assistants today for part of our projects, she had just thrown out all of such things at her last theater in totally agreeing.
Breaker for the circuit is 20AMP. Plug type L6-15 or L6-20 doesn't matter, they will both carry the load given blade terminal size on a 6-20 plug. Only real problem is that especially on a L6-15 plug, you physically cannot reliably get a 12 ga. cable into the terminals of a L6-15 connector. In our case - a L6-15 system it don't work, have to go down to 14 ga. wire so as to make this work... which is than under the circuit breaker load. At best in all conditions, getting a proper strain relief for two cables into it is difficult, and only Leviton cord grips will allow for this. Can be done with skill level.
On such a subject... skill level. A young tech was building 160 clamps and needed more 1/2 Nylock nuts. These are short nylock nuts with only two or three threads of actual steel threads in bolting.... I said no you don't need more of these. We measured a nylock nut inside the bracket and only a little more than a thread was doable with a normal nylock nut. Need two or three threads exposed for use of a nylock nut. I see the problem...
Did you look into thread deforming side lock nuts which are both shorter than a nylock nut, and have just as much advantage especially given a spring lock waser is also in use? Given the clamp type a M-12 bolt with nylock might work better, or a Socket Head cap screw could also gain more threads esposed than a Nylock nut... thus need for 1/2 nylock nut with only 2-3 threads holding the load. They went with that option less expensive, given these days a forgotten thing. If full nylock nut won't fit with 2-3 threads exposed (luckily at least taught), other types of nut are hopefully re-introduced for safety.
In final discussion with her in presenting the side lock nut - grade 2 so it does not damage the bolt... lots of details but with spring lock lock washer, I let her know... I have 10 to 12 years left with the company before I retire. At some point you need to stop just doing what you see or told to assemble, but need to understand what you are doing in why for the next generation.
Removed from inventory six more audience blinders someone - I fault leadership in teaching as with personal doing the work with out understand or ready for the purpose they were tasked with. Flip burger,, not understand a designed principle for grounding fixtures they flipped burgers on. Loose grounding terminals screwed into powder coated paint in stricking enough or loose.. burger flipped without concept of the parts provided assembled correctly and how such a concept works... Burger flipped almost 1/4 of the fixtures we made at one point were un-grounded. Management/Leadership problem... My Wife was the boss of that part of the project.
Yesterday I go a request for 18 more 18" on center L6-15 five connector stringers. One plug, in this case 5x in-line outlets stringing along. Appirently the 98x I made under protest over the past 25 years has not sunk in = I know who wants them in being older school than I am without other ideas in solving the problem. Lost the fight over the years in that I know I read.
"In line connectors are not to be used for interconnection of cable wiring devices" Or something like that. Searched the NEC to find that rule that you cannot and should not into a female connector, put two cords into it so as to feed other things. Even asked on this forum at times with a No' it's ok. Perhaps it was proposed code thing I forget in reading the source for.
I presented this project to one of my assistants today for part of our projects, she had just thrown out all of such things at her last theater in totally agreeing.
Breaker for the circuit is 20AMP. Plug type L6-15 or L6-20 doesn't matter, they will both carry the load given blade terminal size on a 6-20 plug. Only real problem is that especially on a L6-15 plug, you physically cannot reliably get a 12 ga. cable into the terminals of a L6-15 connector. In our case - a L6-15 system it don't work, have to go down to 14 ga. wire so as to make this work... which is than under the circuit breaker load. At best in all conditions, getting a proper strain relief for two cables into it is difficult, and only Leviton cord grips will allow for this. Can be done with skill level.
On such a subject... skill level. A young tech was building 160 clamps and needed more 1/2 Nylock nuts. These are short nylock nuts with only two or three threads of actual steel threads in bolting.... I said no you don't need more of these. We measured a nylock nut inside the bracket and only a little more than a thread was doable with a normal nylock nut. Need two or three threads exposed for use of a nylock nut. I see the problem...
Did you look into thread deforming side lock nuts which are both shorter than a nylock nut, and have just as much advantage especially given a spring lock waser is also in use? Given the clamp type a M-12 bolt with nylock might work better, or a Socket Head cap screw could also gain more threads esposed than a Nylock nut... thus need for 1/2 nylock nut with only 2-3 threads holding the load. They went with that option less expensive, given these days a forgotten thing. If full nylock nut won't fit with 2-3 threads exposed (luckily at least taught), other types of nut are hopefully re-introduced for safety.
In final discussion with her in presenting the side lock nut - grade 2 so it does not damage the bolt... lots of details but with spring lock lock washer, I let her know... I have 10 to 12 years left with the company before I retire. At some point you need to stop just doing what you see or told to assemble, but need to understand what you are doing in why for the next generation.
Removed from inventory six more audience blinders someone - I fault leadership in teaching as with personal doing the work with out understand or ready for the purpose they were tasked with. Flip burger,, not understand a designed principle for grounding fixtures they flipped burgers on. Loose grounding terminals screwed into powder coated paint in stricking enough or loose.. burger flipped without concept of the parts provided assembled correctly and how such a concept works... Burger flipped almost 1/4 of the fixtures we made at one point were un-grounded. Management/Leadership problem... My Wife was the boss of that part of the project.
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