Light Board for an Event

[lighttechie5948]

Hi Everyone,

In June I will be lighting my mom's 20th annual dance recital for the dance school she owns.

It is going to be held at the same venue as last year. The venue has 6 moving lights: 2 MAC 250s on their FOH, and 4 Robe AT250s over stage. Last year I brought in 10 color scrollers for the source four pars they had and used the 10 lights as downlight on the 1 and 2 Elecs.

This year I am deffinetly adding high side scrollers and putting scrollers on some of the S4 50degs i use on the booms for sidelight.

Since its her 20th year, we want to bring in several more movers.

The board they have at the venue is an ETC Express 72/144 with 240 chans. I used that last year and pretty much used all the channels between the 16 chan movers and the 2 channel CXI scrollers along with all the conventionals.

I was thinking about bringing in a new board for this year, possibly a Congo Jr. I want to do cool moving light dance effects, easily and in a tight time space. If I did alot with movers on an express I would need to set each mover to a position and write one cue, then change pan, tilt, color, etc, and create another cue, then another, then link them all together.

What makes it easier on the congo? What additional benefits would this console give me?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[highschooltech]

Not sure about the congo jr exactly but i use the ion a lot for dealing with the number of MLs you talking about and it works great. The console has an on board FX generator which allows you to map out a path for the light using the mouse and then adjusting the scaling. Then put the light at a starting position and tell it to run the effect. You can also do this with moving lights. Plus the console has a color picker that works well with CXIs so you can tell them what gel color to be in. In its default mode the console outputs 2 universes which should be enough. The cheapest model has 1000 channels but every light takes up only one chanel so you could potentially have 1000 MLs if you could get the console to output that much data. Like i said haven't used the Congo but the Ion has similiar capacities and is about half the price.

 

[icewolf08]

The cheapest model has 1000 channels but every light takes up only one chanel so you could potentially have 1000 MLs if you could get the console to output that much data.

Just to clarify: The Ion 1K supports 2 universes of DMX or 1024 ADDRESSES, hence the 1K denomination. This is not 1000 control channels, so you could not have individual control of 1000 MLs.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[lighttechie5948]

Price isn't really my biggest variable, since I am only renting the equipment for a week. Either the Congo Jr or the ION would probably work.

What I'm wondering is how difficult would it be for me to create a rock concert look with the MLs on either of the consoles, and approx how much time would it take.

On an express a rock n roll moving light cue sequence would be extremely difficult to cue and would take FOREVER, at least several hours, if not days.

 

[beltsvillecrucib]

The first step would be to see if there are any rental houses around you that can rent you a congo jr. or ion. Be aware these are both theater boards. The syntax on the congo is also quite different from most consoles and chances are you haven't had experience with it.

Personally, I would go and find a hog 1K. It's a very easy to learn console and can produce great results with little programming time. It supports two universes (1024 addresses) and one (or is it two?) external monitors. Some people complain that it's more difficult to control conventionals on the board, but I disagree whole-heartedly. The effects engine comes with a number of preprogrammed effects, and if you wish to create custom effects this can easily be done on a laptop running Hog2PC and then saved onto a disk. The hog is much more suited to a live show environment and has plenty of faders and direct pallette control.

 

[SerraAva]

I would take it a step farther and look at a Road Hog or IPC. Touch screens will make life easier, and both have effects engine built in making rock and roll lighting very easy to accomplish. I just finished a Nutcracker show that was more rock and less ballet. Had 84 S4 pars, 24 lekos, 6 movers, 8 moving head LEDs which rocked big time, and some other LEDs on top. Show was quick and easy to program thanks to effects engine, tracking, palettes/groups, and those touch screens.

Rental wise a Road Hog or IPC shouldn't be too much more then a Hog 1k and will make your life much easier.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Traitor800]

I would stay away from the Congo for this show. Its a great board for theatre but its not the fastest to learn, nor does it handle moving lights as well as some of the other boards out there. Mainly it has no built in effects engine, which doesn't matter for theatre where ML's are usually just moved from one point to another, but it sounds like you want to do some fancier stuff with the ML's so I would look elsewhere.

 

[lighttechie5948]

how would I learn the road hog? I have an extensive knowledge of the expressions and have a basic knowledge of strand 300/500s.

 

[beltsvillecrucib]

HogSpeak is real easy to learn. Simply sit down with the manual and Hog3PC (if you go for Road Hog) or Hog2PC (If you select the 1K). The expression/Strand experience probably would not help you at all on the congo and from what I hear the Ion is much more similar to Obsession syntax than anything else.

If you really want to program the moving lights to look great in an efficient manner, go get a proper ML console. I say Hog just due to ease of learning and the amount of rental houses that stock them.

 

[SerraAva]

Hog 3PC can be downloaded here. When in the program, it will even have the console lay out exactly like a Hog 3, and very similar to a Road Hog or IPC. Then just sit with the manual and read away with the software in front of you. Then when you get the actual console, it is not like jumping into a pot of hot water. This is how I learned the console.

 

[TheSwami]

When our still does it's massive dance-for-30-hours-straight-for-charity event every spring, we've traditionally used a RoadHog for the movers (~24 VL 2ks) and an old Express 24/48 for the conventionals/pixel pars (~40 total). The Hog's syntax is pretty easy to learn, and quick to use, which is important with 30 hours of looks to program in 3 days. The only quibble I have with it is that the board crashed 6 times over the course of our 30 hour run, but that was probably due to use using palettes to run the show instead of cue lists.

For a theatrical board, the Ion is nice and quite fast to learn if you know the old Strand and have some conception of moving lights. But again, it probably matters more what your local rental house carries.

73

 

[Casey]

Go with the Ion.

I think I have a pretty good idea of where you stand with control boards, and I would recomend not jumping to a Hog just for this single event. It thinks a little differently than the Express (BTW, sidebar. ETC made a Express 72/144. What a random set of numbers. Anyway.). If you are going to be doing a lot of work with moving lights, it might be nice to know the Hog, but the Ion will do everything you need it to do for this event, and thinks basically the same way as an Express.

The Congo is a monster of a board, but the "Reverse Polish Notation" is a real killer (of time, money, and brain cells). They say is saves keystrokes, but I can't find an example of that being true.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Here is a vote for HOG, IPC or road hog will let you do the moving light gags you want and you will learn to manipulate functions in a way you never knew possible with an express.

I'm sure if you ask you rental house nicely they will sit you down with a pair of movers and the board and run you through the functions.

 

[gafftaper]

Begin Rant...
I'm so sick of people saying that Congo is insanely hard to learn. Have you actually seen one? Have you had a demo? It took me about 15 minutes get used to the change in syntax. It's different but it's very logical and follows one simple rule. Type a number then type what you want that number to do. As for the "what you want the number to do part" you are supposed to never have to push more than two buttons to get to the command.

For example to turn on channel 53 at 80%:
5 3 [channel]
8 0 [@ level]

on Ion or a Strand Palette you would type:
5 3 [at]
8 0 [enter]

Yes that's an over simplification but it's not THAT hard to learn. You just have to learn slightly different terminology. If you can learn to program a Hog you can certainly learn a few new words and a Congo.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Congo... but RPN is not one of them.

Rant Ends...As for the original Question yes you will find it much easier to program your show using a Congo, Ion, Eos, or Strand Palette. All of the new consoles think about lights with scrollers as a single entity with attributes. This makes programing much easier. Also all these new consoles have built in effects generators that will make it easy for you to program color, intensity, and movement effects. Ion or Eos would probably be the fastest for you to learn but don't be affraid of Congo or Palette. All of these consoles will make it easier for you to improve your show. I agree that going Hog is a big jump you probably don't want to take. Also all these consoles have off line editors you can download for free to learn the software.

 

[soundlight]

Just sat down with a demo ION today, and after bushwhacking through some patching issues of custom profiles, it seems like you'll be able to create "rock looks" on it just fine. The built in effects engine is great, and the palettes make things nice and easy compared to the "ML Groups" on the old Obsession consoles. The rig that I'm messing around with it on has 4x Intellabeam, 2x Roboscan, 4x S4PAR w/Apollo Smart Color, 4x AF1000, 2x S4 Strobe Cap, 2x Icue in S4 w/rotator, and 4x S4 w/rotator. We also put up our Apollo Right Arm with another scroller on it just for fun. I have to say that the part channel function is great when working with something like a fixture with an icue and a rotator or a right arm and a scroller. If you can find a rental house that has an ION and a fader wing, I'd say go for that. Just make sure that you have a little bit of time to learn the working environment before jumping right in to programming.

That said, if you're up for learning new boards, the Hog 1K would be a good one to go for. The direct access to palettes from physical keys and the large playback section makes it great for dance shows.

 

[derekleffew]

Best piece of advice thus far:

...But again, it probably matters more what your local rental house carries.

The likelihood of finding a Congo, Ion, Eos, or Palette in the rental market, as opposed to a Hog 500, 1000, II, or member of the III family, is so small as to make this an unnecessary discussion.

lighttechie5948, ignore everything we say. Call your preferred local lighting rental house and see what they have available. If they have more than one type of console, you can post again and we'll give you more contradictory advice. I strongly agree with Pie4Weebl that the shop should willingly provide a training session/demo on whatever they propose you rent. All choices listed above are fine consoles, are capable of the task, and are markedly different from the Express; so it comes down to availability. See also this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/8941-hello-help.html and http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/8630-need-learn-hog.html.

 

[gafftaper]

Well said Derek. I agree the odds are very good your options will be the choice of an Express or an older Hog. If you do have the chance to get one of the newer consoles, odds are you will have one option. It's VERY unlikely that you will have the chance to choose between an Ion, Congo, EOS, Palette, Hog 3, and MA. My local dealer has Four options: Hog 2, Ion, Express, and NSI 2 scene presets.

Finally, be sure to get a reservation in as early as you can. Your local shop doesn't have dozens of consoles sitting around not being used.