Minimum needed to run automated lights?

[JesseSkogh]

I'm a Gaffer in New York city and I do primarily independent commercials and narrative features, though I've also done some rigging and focusing on a few concerts recently.

I'm starting a feature on the 12th and the DP and I want to use some automated lights in a club scene. About 5 Mac-101 LEDs is what we had in mind. However, I've only touched the units, and have zero DMX or board experience.

So my question is, what is the minimum / cheapest amount of equipment I would need to run the MAC 101s in something other than just the test pattern? I can figure out how to get it running by reading manuals once I have everything, but I could use help figuring out what equipment I need initially. Do I just need a board with a certain number of channels? Is there something in-between the board and the unit? Is there a way to control them without a board at all? Maybe with just a laptop? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[65535]

ChamSys in the UK has a program called MagicQ they also sell a 1 Universe adapter for $16 which has a 5 hour max continuous run, or for $100 you get a 2 Universe adapter that runs indefinitely. The software is free and should run your lights just fine.

 

[Footer]

Have whatever shop you are renting the units from send you a tech for the day of the shoot along with the console. There are also a few people around these parts that are in the City that would give you a hand for a day rate (and some even have their own console). It might be worth your while. Not saying its not something you can't pick up, but trying to get a shoot going and learning a new console is not exactly the best way to do a day.

 

[meatpopsicle]

I'm a Gaffer in New York city and I do primarily independent commercials and narrative features, though I've also done some rigging and focusing on a few concerts recently.

I'm starting a feature on the 12th and the DP and I want to use some automated lights in a club scene. About 5 Mac-101 LEDs is what we had in mind. However, I've only touched the units, and have zero DMX or board experience.

So my question is, what is the minimum / cheapest amount of equipment I would need to run the MAC 101s in something other than just the test pattern? I can figure out how to get it running by reading manuals once I have everything, but I could use help figuring out what equipment I need initially. Do I just need a board with a certain number of channels? Is there something in-between the board and the unit? Is there a way to control them without a board at all? Maybe with just a laptop? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Well...

The minimal amount of equipment would be a a console, either hardware or a laptop based system, and DMX cable. The console needs to be an automated lighting console or software. It needs to have the profile of the fixture in it so that when you patch the fixtures (give each fixture a unique dmx address) the channels line up with the parameter controls of the console. For a hardware based console there isn't anything between the console and the fixtures except, perhaps, an opti splitter to split the signal to different control line outputs. For a laptop based system there has to be a usb/dmx converter. this is commonly called a "widget" for hog, DSP for GrandMa, or a commercial usb/dmx like an Ennetec USB/DMX dongle which can be used for the Chamsys Magic Q.

For the hardware system that will be a rental. In NY its 4wall or See Factor or PRG. For the laptop system you'll need a mac or pc and to find an Ennetec Dongle (150.00 or so to purchase) The Magic Q software is available for free download and will control 1 universe (512 channels) if you don't have too many fixtures they will fit in one universe. They are, max, 12 channels per fixture. the Chamsys software is available here:

ChamSys :: Download MagicQ

The 101 page from Martin is here:

http://www.martin.com/product/product.asp?product=mac101

Now, the reality check.

If you are gaffing you will not have time to mess with this. You gotta get a guy (sic). You need, minimum, a programmer that has DMX experience. The path to learning this stuff is a very steep path to climb. All for a what are, potentially, a few scenes in the movie. Sure, if the movie is set in the nightclub there might be more need but even then, are you going to gaff from the board? How will that work?

"I can figure out how to get it running by reading manuals once I have everything..." You can, potentially... but not, I think, by the 12th.

And automated lighting programming is extremely time intensive. Many time I've set up a rig and the actual cues was one cuelist, running in a chase, that played all day. But getting to that cuelist took a whole day of setup and hours with the gaffer and DP making "notes". Once its playing there will have to be adjustments to camera...

Bottom line: Get a programmer.

edit: If you are non-union, independent, then, as footer said, get the shop to send out a guy. It might double your cost but at least you'll get em working.

 

[JesseSkogh]

Thanks for the quick replies and suggestions.

And you're right, I probably will end up getting a guy if it turns out we have the budget. I should know more about what exactly I need and have the money for when I go on the tech scout tomorrow.

I just fear that it's going to come down to either I try and do it myself for cheap (using that $16 usb adapter that 65536 recommended) or it not happening at all because the money won't be there.

Initially I thought maybe I could handle 5 units with some ****ing around, but now as I think about it I agree with the last two posts, I can't. It does sound like a lot of fun to mess around with, but as it has been pointed out, I'm not going to have time beforehand to mess around. Or more like a few weeks beforehand to mess around.

So I appreciate the advice. I might be back with more questions after tomorrow. Thanks again.

 

[meatpopsicle]

I just fear that it's going to come down to either I try and do it myself for cheap (using that $16 usb adapter that 65536 recommended) or it not happening at all because the money won't be there.

It very well might.

Here's a suggestion: hang 5 or 10 Source 4's with gobos and then add in some static LED fixtures like colorforce 12's or Colorblasts. They are only 3 or 4 channels (R, G, B, Amb) and push a lot of color at a good stop. Set up a couple of color chases and fixture chases with a much simpler control board (like an express 125 or 250) and you will have a dynamic look on a cheaper budget with minimal learning curve. I would still get someone to push the buttons for you but now its a doable learning curve.

get 2 colorblasts (they need a powersupply) or 2 colorforce 12s (standalone but a little more complicated to address) for the camera test and have a little fun.

 

[JesseSkogh]

It very well might.

Here's a suggestion: hang 5 or 10 Source 4's with gobos and then add in some static LED fixtures like colorforce 12's or Colorblasts. They are only 3 or 4 channels (R, G, B, Amb) and push a lot of color at a good stop. Set up a couple of color chases and fixture chases with a much simpler control board (like an express 125 or 250) and you will have a dynamic look on a cheaper budget with minimal learning curve. I would still get someone to push the buttons for you but now its a doable learning curve.

get 2 colorblasts (they need a powersupply) or 2 colorforce 12s (standalone but a little more complicated to address) for the camera test and have a little fun.

Having worked with the DP a lot, what he is looking for is not so much color as it is shafts. And moving shafts... well it's difficult not to make a lot of sexual innuendos, but he likes the idea very much is what I'm trying to say. Though that's not a bad idea if he still wants to do something a little more involved than a flicker box.

How much would you say the day rate for the gear and a technician might be in NYC? Ballpark? I remember the units not being too bad, but I was worried about all the rest I would need to get them running.

 

[meatpopsicle]

what he is looking for is not so much color as it is shafts. And moving shafts...

Well for moving shafts I would use a profile fixture, like a vl2500 spot, or mac 700 spot, not a moving yoke LED wash. Call See Factor and ask for a quote on 5 mac 700 spots, Hog 1000 and a guy. You might get away for a couple a grand. Don't take the programmer into overtime and you'll have a better shot.

 

[BillESC]

Or for less than the cost of a programmer, you could purchase Elation's Magic 260 hardware controller. It will do everything you need.

 

[meatpopsicle]

Or for less than the cost of a programmer, you could purchase Elation's Magic 260 hardware controller. It will do everything you need.

Except order, hang, address, program and operate the lights. Or interpret the notes from the DP, the Gaffer, the director and the producer, usually all at the same time.

Yup, your saving money on that one.

 

[SteveB]

As Tim stated earlier and he and one other Local 52 guy are the go-to folks for this stuff currently, so he speaks with wisdom:

"Now, the reality check."

"If you are gaffing you will not have time to mess with this. You gotta get a guy (sic). You need, minimum, a programmer that has DMX experience. The path to learning this stuff is a very steep path to climb. All for a what are, potentially, a few scenes in the movie. Sure, if the movie is set in the nightclub there might be more need but even then, are you going to gaff from the board? How will that work? "

 

[WooferHound]

If you don't need the lights to move On Que or to Specific Positions, then all you need are the Moving Lights and some extension cords. The lights will have some built-in Macros that you can call up that will do Bally-Hoos and wave around and change colors and patterns without the need for a console or programming or addressing.

 

[jglodeklights]

Well, the MAC 101 actually has only a 13 degree beam angle and has pretty decent optics, so it does produce a shaft of light, even only in dust that comes standard to the space.

 

[tyler.martin]

Keep in mind for the Beam to show up on camera you are going to need more than the dust in the room.

 

[meatpopsicle]

The lights will have some built-in Macros that you can call up that will do Bally-Hoos and wave around and change colors and patterns without the need for a console or programming or addressing.

well, no, not really.

I went to the manufacturers site and looked through the specs and here:

http://www.martin.com/marketing/files/MAC 101 series brochure.pdf

and it mentions nothing of onboard, stand alone, effects.

Not to mention that having a light, uncontrollable, waving around indiscriminately on a movie set is a recipe for a pink slip. This isn't the Wiggles.

The advice about the haze in the room is very appropriate.

In terms of the optics of the 101: I don't disagree. And they are very fast. But if I'm bringing in a package and spending the money to do so - with an operator - then having more than one look is imperative. Cinematographers can be indecisive, intolerant and fickle (I generalize, of course). They frequently describe an effect but when shown that effect want "more". You won't go far wrong in taking an idea and running it out to its max applicable solution.

Limiting that idea is the Producers job.

 

[JesseSkogh]

There will be haze of course.

After the scout and talking with the DP, we are thinking of getting a few sharpy's and maybe a vl3000 for the gobo shapes. Then getting a few LED strips, maybe some color blasts or something similar, to boost ambiance if need be, but still being safe for picture. And yes I'll be getting a board op.

Now we just need to wait for the producer to get his **** together and tell us exactly what our budget is so we can see exactly how much we can spend.

 

[soundlight]

You don't need to go all the way to VL3000s for gobos, but they are a great fixture if you don't have far to project and want a rather large image. Or if you need the 1200 watt output. You could go down to VL2500s or MAC700s or maybe even down to MAC250 Kryptons depending on the size of the space and the effect required. The VL3Ks are great fixtures though.

 

[JesseSkogh]

I need a guy to run the console for Friday December 2nd. The dates changed and the guy I had lined up cant do it. PM me if you're interested. I dont yet have enough posts to post in the classifieds section. The gear list ended up being:

6 sharpies
4 color force 72s

 

[derekleffew]

I need a guy to run the console ...

Forgive me if I missed it, but which console? You probably don't want someone who knows only LightJockey if the control is a GMA2. OTOH, perhaps Gern could fly out with his Ions.

 

[JesseSkogh]

Forgive me if I missed it, but which console? You probably don't want someone who knows only LightJockey if the control is a GMA2. OTOH, perhaps Gern could fly out with his Ions.

Haven't booked the console yet. Was going to wait until I booked the opperator. The last guy I had had his own, which was nice. We are renting from 4 wall so I was going to take the new guys recomendation.