Control/Dimming Strand 200 / CD80 - adding DMX LED lights

[DustyB]

Our school gym/theatre (mostly a gym) is running a Strand 200 console feeding a CD80 set up. They had some random uplights (PAR 64 Stage Ape's, dip switch style addressing) someone had purchased gathering dust in a tub and it was thought that we might be able to use these as some DMX controlled back lighting for the musical this fall. Is there anything that would prevent these lights from working out of the "DMX OUT" of the CD80 and allow them to be controlled by the Strand 200 up in the booth? I'm asking mostly because I gave it a whirl last night and it failed epically. I skipped the CD80 altogether and tried it right out of the Strand 200 and also had 0 luck. I'm hoping maybe the Stage Ape's or the 5 pin to 3 pin converter I bought are reverse polarity and I just need to resolder some things but I thought maybe I'm trying to do something that isn't even possible so I better ask somebody. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

PS - I realize the stage apes par's are probably highly frowned upon due to their unparalleled cheapness and poor light quality. In my defense, at least for this year, we get the stage apes or we get nothing so I figured we'd at least give it a whirl.

 

[almorton]

If you have address space then you should be able to control them with the 200. As long as they are plugged in to hard power and not a dimmer channel, and you've configured the address of the PARs correctly so they don't clash with the dimmers, and you can assign them channels in the desk it should work, albeit it might be awkward.

 

[DustyB]

If you have address space then you should be able to control them with the 200. As long as they are plugged in to hard power and not a dimmer channel, and you've configured the address of the PARs correctly so they don't clash with the dimmers, and you can assign them channels in the desk it should work, albeit it might be awkward.

I was really hoping you'd say that. When I tried it last night they were on hard power, were not clashing with the dimmers, and I had them assigned to their own channels. You think the reverse polarity thing is a decent possibility for the fail to work? (Now I'm second guessing myself, I'll double check I wasn't clashing with the other dimmers)

 

[almorton]

If you plugged a can directly into the desk, and gave the can address 1 and had a 1-1 patch at the desk (and had a terminator in the can's output), and you still got nothing then cabling might be an issue, but equally, some of those cans have various non DMX modes, so check that too. Somewhere there should be an indicator that it's receiving DMX - usually a flashing LED somewhere.

 

[DustyB]

If you plugged a can directly into the desk, and gave the can address 1 and had a 1-1 patch at the desk (and had a terminator in the can's output), and you still got nothing then cabling might be an issue, but equally, some of those cans have various non DMX modes, so check that too. Somewhere there should be an indicator that it's receiving DMX - usually a flashing LED somewhere.

I'm on it. Thank you very much for all of your help, I'll give it another go this weekend.

 

[almorton]

Found the manual, I think.
Make sure dipswitch 10 is on to enable DMX. If it's off, the can is in standalone mode and will ignore DMX and do other things.

So, if you had the can patched at address 1, with a one to one patch, for a quick test, set channel 4 to full, channel 5 to 0. Then bring up channel 1 - it should go red. take it down, bring up 2 it should be green. Take it down bring up 3 it should be blue. Mixing 1,2,3 gives you different colours. Channel 4 is the master dimmer. If it's at 0, you'll get no output. 5 is the strobe channel - at zero it doesn't flash, take up 5 and it will flash.

Maybe you had 4 at 0, hence no output?

 

[DustyB]

I think I nailed the dip switch thing, I failed for sure on the terminator when testing right out of the desk. When trying it from the CD/80, I'm assuming there's a terminator already in the system for the dimmers, you figure that's the case so another one would not be necessary on the one's I'm trying to add?

 

[almorton]

Terminator goes on the last fixture, not in the middle. The CD80 may have a term/unterm switch, so if you're coming out of the CD80 to your cans it should be unterminated, and a terminator should be plugged into the last fixture in the chain.

BTW, don't believe any of the "gurus" you'll find on Facebook who will tell you that terminators are optional and never required and nobody ever uses them. It will work without one, right up until it doesn't, usually in the middle of a show. Always terminate at the last fixture, and don't exceed 31 fixtures per cable run (your dimmer rack counts as one fixture, each can as one fixture).

 

[Calc]

I have a couple of the Stage Ape Par64's that we use for banquet uplighting, but I've DMXed them a couple of times. Assuming we have the same model (which is a leap of faith with these cheap overseas fixtures), they're 7 channel: GRB???I. The three other channels are some mix of macros/other functions.

We've had ours for a while now, and the quality is as expected for the price. Try to keep the nut on the AC pigtail tight, we've lost a dipswitch or two on a couple of them. Most importantly, keep an eye on the DC tail of the AC adapter inside- the plastic eventually starts to crumble.

 

[DustyB]

Terminator goes on the last fixture, not in the middle. The CD80 may have a term/unterm switch, so if you're coming out of the CD80 to your cans it should be unterminated, and a terminator should be plugged into the last fixture in the chain.

BTW, don't believe any of the "gurus" you'll find on Facebook who will tell you that terminators are optional and never required and nobody ever uses them. It will work without one, right up until it doesn't, usually in the middle of a show. Always terminate at the last fixture, and don't exceed 31 fixtures per cable run (your dimmer rack counts as one fixture, each can as one fixture).

Facebook guru's seem to be a dime a dozen, folks that will give you the straight story even if there's work involved, priceless. Thank you.

 

[almorton]

Looks like the manual I found was for a different (older) 5 channel model.

 

[DustyB]

I have a couple of the Stage Ape Par64's that we use for banquet uplighting, but I've DMXed them a couple of times. Assuming we have the same model (which is a leap of faith with these cheap overseas fixtures), they're 7 channel: GRB???I. The three other channels are some mix of macros/other functions.

We've had ours for a while now, and the quality is as expected for the price. Try to keep the nut on the AC pigtail tight, we've lost a dipswitch or two on a couple of them. Most importantly, keep an eye on the DC tail of the AC adapter inside- the plastic eventually starts to crumble.

I got turned on to the reverse polarity thing on a rabbit hole google search. You haven't had any issues with the polarity thing on yours have you?

 

[DustyB]

Looks like the manual I found was for a different (older) 5 channel model.

I don't know which model I have since they don't seem to write model numbers on their stuff. It could be either one as far as I can tell.

 

[derekleffew]

I got turned on to the reverse polarity thing on a rabbit hole google search. You haven't had any issues with the polarity thing on yours have you?

Reverse polarity DMX isn't really even a thing anymore. I can only think of a few fixtures from the late 1990s with that malady.

 

[DustyB]

Found the manual, I think.
Make sure dipswitch 10 is on to enable DMX. If it's off, the can is in standalone mode and will ignore DMX and do other things.

So, if you had the can patched at address 1, with a one to one patch, for a quick test, set channel 4 to full, channel 5 to 0. Then bring up channel 1 - it should go red. take it down, bring up 2 it should be green. Take it down bring up 3 it should be blue. Mixing 1,2,3 gives you different colours. Channel 4 is the master dimmer. If it's at 0, you'll get no output. 5 is the strobe channel - at zero it doesn't flash, take up 5 and it will flash.

Maybe you had 4 at 0, hence no output?

Very possible.

 

[DustyB]

Reverse polarity DMX isn't really even a thing anymore. I can only think of a few fixtures from the late 1990s with that malady.

I knew it, I've been had by the internet once again. I came to the right place.

 

[almorton]

Reverse polarity DMX isn't really even a thing anymore. I can only think of a few fixtures from the late 1990s with that malady.

That said, we've found some cheapo shoebox dimmers where they output with reversed polarity, and no switch in sight. Even the screen printing on the case shows they are wired barse ackwards.

 

[DustyB]

Just for some closure, I put into play all the things you guys recommended and it's looking like it boils down to the ol' Stage Ape light I've been using to test this operation being highly untrustworthy. I cut my 5 pin to 3 pin adaptor in half to do some troubleshooting and found if you disconnect the Data (-), the light works like a champ. You put it back in , it does nothing. I brought in a DMX controlled DJ light I had lying around with all components back together and it works as designed. I have 10 other Stage Ape's up at the school I can try to see if it's just one light or all of them but, I think I've been chasing the wind. Thanks again for all the help and advice, I learned a ton and couldn't have figured this out with you.