I just found out today that a local arena is oing to take it's existing stage out, expand and install a fly system. Sounds good except I'm sure no one has given a thought to who runs the fly once they get it. They are going to need to hire somebody that actually knows and understands a fly system and in my area I know of exactly two. There is a father son team that run flys in DC. I just hope they don't think they are going to try and teach their house guys, no knowledge in theatre at all.
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- Thread startermstaylor
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It can be learned if they get the proper time in there. Best thing is if the local guys get brought in to help in the install, especially if the installer is an IA shop. On top of that, the first dozen or two shows can't be huge musicals with unistrut and hard scenery.
My current head flyman had never ran a double purchase rail and had little experience on a single purchase rail as of June of this year. Since, he has put probably 50-60 shows onstage and has really turned around just in the last month to the point where I don't really question him. I probably spent at least 3 or 4 8 hour days with just us in the space playing with stuff. He was also there for a full strike and re-hang of all of our soft goods which really drilled in snub procedures and such. He know the rigging from his time with the circus, so that helped. However, he had to develop his touch with the lines and be able to feel the loads... and you can only learn that with time.
It is possible to turn arena up/down guys into theatre riggers. The finesse is different of course and that's the one thing they really have to learn. However, with current Broadway tours more stuff goings into the air on truss and motors then it does on battens. So, in effect, they need to know both.
Its going to be rough for awhile. Get on the ETCP site and see if there are any theatre certified riggers in the area and get them on the calls for the first few months. Really though, there is no other way to learn then to just do it. With a good ETCP guy on staff he/she will be able to show the tricks that make working with a counterweight system safely and quickly. Dealing with show operation and loading out of weight/wacky loads is also something that is just learned over time. There is a reason ETCP requires 3,000 hours before they will even let you take the test.
Unfortunately though, I have seen more then one arena rigger look at theatre rigging as play things/toys and don't pay attention to what they are doing, so safety and respect for the systems need to be drilled into their heads.
My current head flyman had never ran a double purchase rail and had little experience on a single purchase rail as of June of this year. Since, he has put probably 50-60 shows onstage and has really turned around just in the last month to the point where I don't really question him. I probably spent at least 3 or 4 8 hour days with just us in the space playing with stuff. He was also there for a full strike and re-hang of all of our soft goods which really drilled in snub procedures and such. He know the rigging from his time with the circus, so that helped. However, he had to develop his touch with the lines and be able to feel the loads... and you can only learn that with time.
It is possible to turn arena up/down guys into theatre riggers. The finesse is different of course and that's the one thing they really have to learn. However, with current Broadway tours more stuff goings into the air on truss and motors then it does on battens. So, in effect, they need to know both.
Its going to be rough for awhile. Get on the ETCP site and see if there are any theatre certified riggers in the area and get them on the calls for the first few months. Really though, there is no other way to learn then to just do it. With a good ETCP guy on staff he/she will be able to show the tricks that make working with a counterweight system safely and quickly. Dealing with show operation and loading out of weight/wacky loads is also something that is just learned over time. There is a reason ETCP requires 3,000 hours before they will even let you take the test.
Unfortunately though, I have seen more then one arena rigger look at theatre rigging as play things/toys and don't pay attention to what they are doing, so safety and respect for the systems need to be drilled into their heads.
Well said Kyle but I didn't explain house guys very well. Any arena rigging is done by the company I work for or a competing company. Neither of us have flymen except the father/son team I refered to above. The son works for me, the dad also lives locally but is a flyman with 22 in DC.
The bui;ding guys are not hands or riggers of any kind. The closest they come is setting the Stage Right decking, and they sometimes struggle with that. I am the head rigger for my company but the fly experience I have is a local college that has electrics on a counterweight system.
The bui;ding guys are not hands or riggers of any kind. The closest they come is setting the Stage Right decking, and they sometimes struggle with that. I am the head rigger for my company but the fly experience I have is a local college that has electrics on a counterweight system.
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Ya, it can still be learned. I have never seen a situation where more then one labor company is involved in a space work out well, but I'm sure you feel that already. It might be in your best interest to get your guys trained that way you have the calls every time.
Added to that, with counterweight rigging, 1 guy on the rail and 2 guys on the loading rail is really all you need to get a lot of work done. Of course you need hands on the deck but they really can't do anything that can REALLY hurt anyone short of letting go of a bull line or attaching a load wrong (yes, they can do a lot more, but for the sake of argument....). Loaders should do what they are told and nothing else. Really, it comes down to the flyman to get everything done and done right. Unlike arena rigging where you need at least 4 guys up and 4 guys down... and if one guys screws up your finished... stage rigging is a bit more centered on one guy. So, instead of training 20 guys to rig, 5 would probably do it. That would also keep your call list deep enough to keep things moving.
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Yup, there should be. Ideal would always has a PM, LD, A1, and Rigger as house guys that come on whenever the doors get opened. Thats the way it is around here. I guess if a promoter wanted to they could hire IA labor instead of our labor, but the house heads come on no matter what.
But yes, there should be a guy that all he/she does is operate that rail. That way you never get in the "Well, I'm just here today, I'll let the next guy take care of _______ issue".
What venue is this? (reply privately if you'd prefer)...
What kind of show will be produced/presented?
--Sean
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