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Oddity surrounding Martin Stagebar 54

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by porkchop, May 27, 2008.

  1. porkchop

    porkchop Well-Known Member

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    Ok I'm a huge geek I admit it. So when I saw that the Martin Stagebar 54's we have used only an RJ-45 connector for control. I was really stoked and thought that this was some kind of intro ACN fixture. After some investigation I found out that this actually just used a rather convoluted DMX to RJ-45 adapter. I cried a little inside it's true. Anyone know of a fixture (or working prototype of one) that actually uses RJ-45 as it is and not as a pass through?

    Edit:
    Here's info on DMX to RJ-45 for those that care. I found it kinda an interesting.
    http://www.adena.co.nz/datasheets/lighting/cables/ca000007.pdf
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2008
  2. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    We've discussed this before. An ethernet-only fixture would require data to be home run to a hub/switch. I would miss the ability to daisy chain fixtures on a pipe, using either DMX or RJ-45 cable.

    To answer your question, the CK ColorBlaze 48/72 can use only the RJ-45 connectors, with the proprietary control system, ColorPlay®.

    I believe the DL.3 uses the ethernet connection to stream/upload content, but still needs DMX to control movement and other parameters.

    Here's another new forum, on the topic of RDM.
     
  3. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    This is becoming more and more common, especially on cheaper fixtures. The DJ market is starting to move this way. The connectors are cheap, anyone can make a cable up in a few minutes, and it just works. No, its not a rugged connector, but it does work. No, it does not comply with the standard, but then again, it does work.
     
  4. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    ESTA's site seems to be down at the moment, but I believe there is a Technical Standards document detailing sending DMX over CAT5 cabling.

    I really like how the Stagebar 54™ deals with power. Wouldn't it be great if all LED fixtures allowed daisy chaining of power? Even my little Chauvet ColorSplashJr. does this, and I like it.
     
  5. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    All of Chauvet's new LED offerings are now supplied with pass-through AC.

    It's a good thing.
     
  6. jmabray

    jmabray Active Member

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    So does Pixelrange's (pass through power that is)

    But if you included a two port switch (one for the in, one for the out) you wouldn't need to home run each line, they could just daisy chain. And since each fixture has it's own switch, you could literally go 300 feet between fixtures. (I know that you can get more than that with DMX right now, but I am just laying out the way it would work) Switches are so cheap right now that this wouldn't be difficult to do...

    Now each fixture would also have to have it's own ip address, but more than likely your console would do this addressing for you via DHCP.

    It's going to be an interesting next few years....
     
  7. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Ya its out there, they basicly say, yes you can get away with it.
     
  8. Jezza

    Jezza Active Member

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    When you say power passthrough do you mean power alone and you still have to run independent data to each fixture? Or at least run a separate daisy chained data line? It would seem to me that we would all be better off could we find a cable/connector that carried both power and data AND allowed for daisy chaining via. switches. Something like a multiple pole speakon jack for power and data -- hey doesn't this exist already? :)
     
  9. jmabray

    jmabray Active Member

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    I can only speak for the Pixelrange line because that is what I am familiar with, but it has seperate power and data passthroughs.
     
  10. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    The problem with DHCP setting the fixture address is that it would have no way of knowing how you want that fixture assigned on the board. There still has to be a way of identifying that it is fixture #23 on the back truss for example. I suspect as things shake out, the IP address will be dynamically set so they can talk, but there will also be a separate fixture address that is preprogrammed into the specific fixture.
     
  11. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Sure. It's just a matter of finding an appropriate connector, then getting all manufacturers to agree. Not nearly as easy as it seems. The architectural division of Elation, Acclaim, has the X-Band 300 II, a ColorBlast12-like wall wash fixture that uses an 8-pin IP67 Waterproof cable, allowing the user to daisy chain up to 20 fixtures.

    The LSD Icon used the Speakon NL-8 to carry power and data. Vari*Lite series 100 & 200 used different CPC connectors. So it's not a new idea, just never implemented across manufacturers. Scrollers/DMX gadgets currently use 4pin XLR for both power and data, and Apollo, ChromaQ, and Rosco seem to have agreed on a pinout. PRG's Series400™ system is a huge step forward, but must break-out the power and data at the female end to allow universality with any fixture.

    As to building a two-port switch into each fixture, isn't there a limit as to through how many switches IP data can pass (3-4-5 rule), and something about a max. of 254 devices on a subnet?

    And I'm not sure I want my VL3000s surfing MySpace when they're supposed to be running cues. What if all the DL.3s started playing their own YouTube clips?:rolleyes:
     
  12. jmabray

    jmabray Active Member

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    that is why you never ever ever hook your lighting network up to the internet. Not even close to a good idea. (unless you really know what you are doing and can section your network off via routers and firewalls....)

    I don't know how this is going to be implemented (I am sure it is up to each individual console manufacturer) but I am sure that there would be some way to ID each fixture and assign that info in the board.
     
  13. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Just like today, where the User#/Fixture# is 23, and the operator doesn't care (but the console knows) that the fixture is Universe 4, DMX address 347, except that the fixture's address would be 024.120.081.037.

    Jeff, are you in Las Vegas for LightFair?
     
  14. porkchop

    porkchop Well-Known Member

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    Yah I don't see addressing as a problem as long as once a fixture is assigned it doesn't change (I think the nightmares are obvious if IP's and the patch were changed every time the board or fixtures powered up). Even if we got to some point were it was smart to plug your board into the internet there's ways to address IP's to local fixtures that don't overlap with WWW addresses.

    I just want to play with fixtures that work that way. It's probably the computer geek in me that wants to see the code and how things work hardware wise, but still.
     
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Member

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    Robe 2500 has an ethernet in, obviosly RJ45. I'm not using it at present though...
    Colorweb LED picks up RJ45 exclusively, granted it needs like a million universes to do anything...
     
  16. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    Yea, there are several non-routable address ranges (such as 192.168.0.0 to 255.255) that are often used in LANs as they will not route on the open web. In these cases, the router/gateway has to provide address translations or tunneling in order for them to work on the web. As for fixture addresses, I suspect the fixtures would have static IP addresses much like the old peer to peer non-DHCP networks. Even in the 192.168 range, there would be 65,025 addresses available. (255 x 255)

    Wireless would worry me. Just need some clown with a laptop to hack you.
     
  17. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    And dollars to donuts, my local lighting shop would still send me two fixtures with the exact same address.:)
     
  18. jmabray

    jmabray Active Member

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    DHCP, if the addresses are not set as static on the fixture, should fix this for you.

    And if it does change the address, as I understand it, it will still know which fixture is which....
     

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