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Oh why knot?

Discussion in 'Question of the Day' started by derekleffew, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    As always, students only, for one week, please.

    Tie-line on an XLR cable (in this case, an intercom cable), but it's used by some on just about every type of cable.
    What's this knot called? How does one tie it? And what are the advantages/disadvantages?

    knot_photo.jpg

    It's deceptively simple.
     
  2. Amiers

    Amiers Lighting Phoenix 1 Lamp at a Time

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    Looks like a double clove hitch from the back. I've tied em so many times I don't think I could explain it without using my hands. Advantages easy to tie disadvantages pita to take apart after years of it being tied.
     
  3. techieman33

    techieman33 Well-Known Member

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    I see that as an advantage. Keeps the new stagehands from doing to much damage when they think they need to remove ALL of the tie line. I can't even count the number of times I've had to stop people from removing them, or had them walk up to ask me if there was an easier way to get them off. At least with it being hard to undo we can usually catch them before they remove to many.
     
  4. Amiers

    Amiers Lighting Phoenix 1 Lamp at a Time

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    For a long term knot yes it is an advantage I spose, but for the one off times you need to tie something off I would see it as a disadvantage because most of the times it requires a flat head and gloves because if you miss you are slicing fingers and swearing up a storm lol. Most of the times when I did use tie line it was an expendable so saved fingers by just knifing it.
     
  5. StradivariusBone

    StradivariusBone Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    If it's a clove hitch derivative, (and near the end of the cable it's attached to) the quick and easy way is to put two loops/half-hitches, cross them, and slip it over the end. I don't know if that would work with this variety though. *goes to find bucket of tie line*
     
  6. cmckeeman

    cmckeeman Active Member

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    Looks like a barrel knot to me, and the only benefit i can think of is it is less likely to come untied as compared to a clove or choke, but it take sup more tie-line and is a bulkier knot.
     
  7. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    This would be Gaff's prefered knott for Cable. Super fast and easy to tie, easy to move along the cable, but still has some decent holding power when tight. What's it called?
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Amiers

    Amiers Lighting Phoenix 1 Lamp at a Time

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    I know it's not the right name but I call that a yo-yo knot, because that's how we used to fix the yo-yo string to our fingers. Oh the days before gameboys and iPhones.
     
  9. sk8rsdad

    sk8rsdad Well-Known Member Premium Member Fight Leukemia

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    That would be a Lark's Head (wiki: larks head). It's technically a hitch, not a knot.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2014
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  10. cmckeeman

    cmckeeman Active Member

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    I prefer doing a clove then just a half knot with the tails to keep it from coming loose
     
  11. Floobydust

    Floobydust Member

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    I use a Knot app on my iPhone; lotsa different choices, depending on what you need.
     
  12. DuckJordan

    DuckJordan Well-Known Member

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    Doesnt matter
    More common up here in the farming states as a cows hitch.
     
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  13. danTt

    danTt Well-Known Member

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    The problem I find with this knot is that it's too easy to pull the tielie off when you need a piece to tie up cable somewhere else. The nice thing about the initial knot is that you have to work so hard to remove the tielie that people usually give up and go find a new piece.
     
  14. TuckerD

    TuckerD Active Member

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    I would say that the first knot it a barrel knot. It is also commonly used for the safety knot in a climbing system. Here is one attached to my water bottle. The one on my water bottle has fewer wraps but is the same knot. The second picture is two of them tied against each other on a rope to make a loop.
    IMAG0403.jpg IMAG0404.jpg

    The second knot in this thread is a larks head, a similar knot with more wraps is called a prusik. To tie this I used the loop from picture two. The first picture is before the knot was tightened and the second is after I pulled on the loop. This knot is great because when under tension it doesn't slip but when loosened it is easy to move a long the line. I have used this knot to hang a 1/2" x 350' steel zip line cable on a high ropes course and also to relieve strain on cable connectors.
    IMAG0405.jpg IMAG0407.jpg

    When using this knot for strain relief I usually tie the prusik on the cable below the connector, then tie the prusik loop off on a baton or something else near by that can take the pressure. I could take a picture of this if anyone wants to see. Does anyone think it's a bad idea if I am working with power cables? What about other kinds of cable? Obviously cable pressure should be avoided but I figure pressure like this is better than pressure on the connectors.
     
  15. cmckeeman

    cmckeeman Active Member

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    When you tie them to make a loop or join two ropes it becomes the double fisherman's and unless if it is somehow destroying the shielding on the cable i see no issue, you can't crimp power only cut wires
     
  16. TuckerD

    TuckerD Active Member

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    Thanks, now I can put a name on that. Wooot
     
  17. danTt

    danTt Well-Known Member

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  18. TuckerD

    TuckerD Active Member

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    Hmm. I haven't seen that before. Do you mean perpendicular or parallel?

    That is a nice knot though, one I will definitely play with. I like the prusik because it gives you a loop to clip / tie on to and I have done some pretty cool things with it.
     
  19. danTt

    danTt Well-Known Member

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    Parallel, actually. Perpendicular to the knot, I guess is what I was trying to say.
     
  20. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    What's pictured in post#1 is not a true barrel knot, as it's tied in the middle of the rope, not with the ends. But adding "barrel" to googling leads perhaps to the best representation: barrel bead knot, most commonly used in macrame and creating rosary.
    http://www.free-macrame-patterns.com/barrel-knot.html :
    [​IMG]

    Seems a good knot for permanently affixing tieline that will always live on a cable. Visually a little cleaner than a square knot, or a clove hitch finished with a half-hitch. As said above, difficult to untie, so encourages the miscreant to give up and find a more easily accessible piece of string.

    The lark's head is a great knot, and I use it all the time, but not in an instance like this. Plus, one needs to decide if one wants the cable to be suspended hanging UNDER the batten, or affixed to it, as with a clove surrounding both the pipe and cable.

    Another thing I found while googling--a useful knot-tying accessory, a U-channel a few inches long.
    http://www.rosarymakersguide.org/cordwithknottedcenter.htm :
    [​IMG]
    I'll have to look around and find something similar sized properly for #4 (1/8") cord (tie-line).

    barrel_bead_front.jpg
    Front

    barrel_bead_back.jpg
    Back
     

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