PC CONTROL VS. CONSOLE

[Magnolia2011]

Hello CB!

We are looking into getting a lighting system for our small community theater. This is a brand new setup with no equipment right now. We have considered PC Software such as Lightfactory ($$) or MaqicQ (free!).

Then we are also looking at getting a small console that is affordable (read: under $500). Our total budget is around $2500. If we go the PC route, we have a dedicated desktop and monitor already that we could use.

We are thinking of using mostly PARs, some LEDs, and a couple of LEKOs basically to start. Nothing too fancy.

Inputs and Opinions on PC vs Console? If you suggest console, please share which console you suggest in our price range. Thank you.

Magnolia

 

[jglodeklights]

You'll also want a few dimmers to go with any conventional system that you purchase, FYI......

I, as I have learned the software, have come to really like Magic Q. It is extremely powerful, yet not all that difficult to use...once you learn it. Much more powerful than any console in the $500 range. Personally, if you already have the computer, I wouldn't bother with any sub $500 console. Just buy an Enttec USB to DMX dongle, and get to lighting the stage. The Enttec dongle will also allow you to use other programs such as Freestyler and Enttec's upcoming D-Pro. Just make sure you do a clean re-installation of the operating system on the computer.

 

[cpf]

The main disadvantage of a computer based system is the lack of physical controls, so I'd recommend picking up some USB fader wings on the cheap.

 

[bishopthomas]

The main disadvantage of a computer based system is the lack of physical controls, so I'd recommend picking up some USB fader wings on the cheap.

Any recommendations?

 

[DrPinto]

So...ever have a computer crash on you?

Go with a console.

With your limited budget, I would look for something used but decent. I'm a fan of Leprecon boards. IMHO, they're not as good as ETC or Strand, but they're much better than American DJ, Teatronics, or Chauvet.

Keep your eyes open on eBay.

 

[josh88]

I've actually never had a control computer crash on me. Mostly because unlike home computers and such, the ones I use are stripped of everything except the programs needed to run and whatever show software is on it. Nothing to bog it down or steal memory. Some routine maintenance cleaning them out and they are good to go usually. At least with my experience.

 

[JD]

"Just make sure you do a clean re-installation of the operating system on the computer."
-----
I have to second this, as well as recommend you disable the network adapter, do not load anti-virus, or any other software for that matter. About the last thing you want a computer to do is to try to do an auto-update right in the middle of a show!

 

[chausman]

So...ever have a computer crash on you?

Go with a console.

Ever had a console crash on you?

Go with what will work for you. In this situation, that probably is a computer, I just want to get that out there.

MagicQ does have a steep learning curve, so you may want to download it now on a different computer to start learning, and then later download again for the show computer.

 

[derekleffew]

Do a search for "dedicated control surface," we've discussed this many times.

A dedicated control surface will always be preferable over a computer, keyboard, and mouse. What if you want to manually perform two actions at once (for example, take one set of lights down while bringing another set up)? Can't do that clicking and dragging a cursor on a screen. The approximately 4000 USD for an ETC Element or similar should be a very small portion of the budget for a well-equipped performing arts center.

Some threads to see:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...3-chamsys-magicq-other-pc-based-consoles.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/8507-moving-light-controller.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/2793-dmx-control-form-laptop.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/17197-lighting-console-vs-pc-wings.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/6262-running-lights-pc.html

Now IF you are doing straight theatre shows where the lighting is always pre-programmed and the cues are always executed in order by a button monkey, PC control may be adequate.

 

[SteveB]

and the cues are always executed in order by a button monkey, PC control may be adequate.

After spending 3-1/2 hrs. this afternoon, writing all of 22 cues, I definitely feel like a button monkey.

 

[DrPinto]

Ever had a console crash on you?

Go with what will work for you. In this situation, that probably is a computer, I just want to get that out there.

MagicQ does have a steep learning curve, so you may want to download it now on a different computer to start learning, and then later download again for the show computer.

I own both a Leprecon 612 and 624 and they've NEVER crashed. I take take that back. They've crashed on the floor several times when students accidentally dropped them. We just collected all the bump buttons that popped off, stuck them back on, and continued with the rehearsal. That's why I like them.

 

[LXPlot]

So...ever have a computer crash on you?

Go with a console.

You ever tried controlling LEDs with a Leprecon 612? It is most certainly not something which can be done well consistently.

On the other hand, have you ever had a computer crash on you whilst running a Linux build? Chamsys was very smart about making MagicQ Linux compatible, as those are hard to crash. Take a computer, put Ubuntu or Fedora on it with none of the optional software, and suddenly you have a very stable little control surface.

 

[josh88]

I feel like this may have gotten glossed over, jglodeklights mentioned it, but remember to save room in the budgets for dimmers for the non LED lights. other wise they'll just be plugged in at full with no control and the pc/console argument is moot at that point.

 

[itie]

So...ever have a computer crash on you?

Go with a console.

With your limited budget, I would look for something used but decent. I'm a fan of Leprecon boards. IMHO, they're not as good as ETC or Strand, but they're much better than American DJ, Teatronics, or Chauvet.

Keep your eyes open on eBay.

trying to find a replacement console on the fly is a lot harder then trying to find a replacement computer on the fly.

that being said Ive been playing around with magic-q for a while now, and I found that its really nice if you have time. Running everything from cues is simple and easy. Currently I'm trying to do a live event with movers and haven't found a good way to do it yet with magic-q.

my recommendations are save the money on the console and use magic-q until you can afford a nice console or wing. with the money you save spend it on better dimmers. Fixtures and consoles are easy to upgrade later. I have the enttec ode and enjoy it a lot but you can probably save some money if you buy Chamsys's magic dmx.

 

[mstaylor]

Have I had a console crash, absolutely, multiple times and multiple manufacturers. If you run absolutely nothing on a computor other than your lighting then I don't see a problem.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

I own both a Leprecon 612 and 624 and they've NEVER crashed. I take take that back. They've crashed on the floor several times when students accidentally dropped them. We just collected all the bump buttons that popped off, stuck them back on, and continued with the rehearsal. That's why I like them.

And the light switch in my bedroom has never crashed either... I thought we were talking about lighting consoles in this thread?

 

[Jawbone]

I like using Hog3pc on an MSI Touchscreen computer. There is a keyboard layout that corresponds to the programmer buttons. Hog3 programming is pretty easy and robust and the touchscreen allows for plenty of room for touch manipulation. There is a printable keyboard layout for printable labels somewhere in the HES Forum someone made.

Jawbone

Used hog3 widget on ebay go for anywhere between $500-$1200.

 

[JChenault]

After spending 3-1/2 hrs. this afternoon, writing all of 22 cues, I definitely feel like a button monkey.

If it took you 3 1/2 hours to write 22 cues, then you either have an issue with your lighting designer or and issue with your console.

( Warning - as a developer of a PC based solution I am biased here )

IMHO the primary factor to consider when choosing between a console and a program on a general purpose computer is 'Do I need all those faders and knobs'. If you need to manually busk a show with lots of on the fly moves - you need faders and knobs. If not you should consider a PC based solution.

If you want something easy to learn, take a look at our product. We designed it to be easy and intuitive. Indeed, I have had folks just start using it and figuring out how it works with no instruction.

If you end up going with any PC based solution, you MUST consider the PC a computer dedicated to controling lights. Dont' connect it to the internet. Don't run any other programs. Don't run a virus scan / program.

Have fun.

 

[SteveB]

If it took you 3 1/2 hours to write 22 cues, then you either have an issue with your lighting designer or and issue with your console.

.

Or, the LD has communication issues with the director as well as having paid very little attention to where lights actually got focused, thus doesn't know what he's looking at when he wants to reduce the amber in the cue.

The LD was/is more of a trade show/4th rate R&R LD, thus told us "make wash" in a heavy Russian accent. It was our rep plot but his hookup but not a lot of attention or effort was paid to laying out the channels in any way that made sense. His so-called magic sheet" was an 8-1/2x11 print of my original 11x17, so channel numbers were a bit tough to read, so I gave him the 11x17 to use, good thing as it was colored in to give a bit of a clue as to colors, which in any case largely consisted of R16, L161 & L119. For about 150 units.

Plus 10 no-name Chinese knock-off LED R/G/B Pars as side light blasts of light, whose "white" was somewhere around R64 or so. The LD and a cohort owned the LED's but had no data so we stumbled thru the addressing, which was either 6 or 7 addresses per fixture, not sure. Thus no profile so I simply dumped all to individual channels and subs. The LD did not assign channels for the LED's and built off of the subs, which made it tough to adjust when recorded into a cue, that is now on stage, when you don't know the channel numbers.

I was trying to address a Little Blizzard snow machine at one point with the 2nd fixture owner, who was trying to use LD Calculator to get the Blizzard to address. Big No Go in that one. I read the manual on-line the next day and it turns out that the machine has it's own very different dip switch system and we weren't close. You would think the owner of the friggin gear would know how to use it or maybe bring the manual ?. Nope. The owner didn't even know what cheap Chinese knock-off company made the ****ed LED Pars, so how are we supposed to address the bloody thing ?. Perhaps the Jackie Gleason method ?, "Hellow Par !".

So, Yeah, 22 cues was a miracle in 3-1/2 hrs.

Sigh.....

 

[meatpopsicle]

Sigh.....

Brutal.

But thats what makes you a consumate professional.