Installs Rigging Expansion - Speaker Outputs?

[MNicolai]

We have a large, unlit apron. About 18' of area downstage of the proscenium that has no side or top light. Scary, right? To accommodate, I'm looking into adding a rigging position above that area. It may be a conventional electric with a connector strip suspended from a winch, or it may be box truss suspended from chain hoists.

What I'm trying to establish is all of the infrastructure I want it to have. So far, we have plans for (48) 20A circuits, DMX, probably (3) bundles of CAT5E for general use, and then there's audio. The idea is that groups may come through our roadhouse wanting to fly line arrays. If they were going to do that, this would be where they would suspend them from. Ideally, we'd like to cut down on the number of cables dropped from the hang position to the floor, power, data, or otherwise, by already having an established infrastructure for whatever may be needed.

I've guesstimated 4 channels, with NL4 inputs on stage right, which then are fed up to the hang position via conduit to NL4 outputs on either side of the truss or connector strip. So when groups come in, they connect their amp rack to our patch panel, which takes the signals to the rigging position, and has patch cables that complete the connection from the output panels to the speakers.

For those of you who tour with line arrays, would you ever use that or some variation thereof? What might you find useful?

 

[rwhealey]

I would think about putting in some kind of microphone cable with XLR connectors for powered speakers as well.

 

[DaveySimps]

I second the XLR feed. What about folks that come in with NL8 needs? To me, I would still prefer to use my cabling since it will probably be loomed and labeled already. Plus, no offense to your house, but you never know the condition of the house gear, so the risk of it not working would not be worth the few minuets of time it would save me.

~Dave

 

[museav]

At least in by experience, unless they are prohibited from doing so they will run there own cabling regardless of what you have. Every line array can differ from the connector types to the number of lines required to the wire gage desired. The there is the possibility of self powered arrays and even some with internal network accessed processing. So they are likely going to be bringing in a cabling system that they know works with their amps and their speaker arrays, especially as they do not usually have time to be trying to figure out anything else.

For example, the last line array, actually a curvilinear array, that I did was broken into three sections to allow for long, mid and short throw amplitude shading. It also included flown cardioid subs that required separate front and rear driver signals, thus it required five runs per array, with one run per termination for some and two per termination for the subs. The array before that, which was more a true line array, also required five runs per array but that did not include subs and used a very different routing and terminations (three runs to a three pair connector for the mains and two pair to the downfills). And that was two arrays that are in the same 'family' from the same manufacturer.

So having some speaker cabling there might be nice and may be useful in some cases but will probably not prevent people wanting or needing to run their own cabling.

 

[derekleffew]

...The idea is that groups may come through our roadhouse wanting to fly line arrays. If they were going to do that, this would be where they would suspend them from. Ideally, we'd like to cut down on the number of cables dropped from the hang position to the floor, power, data, or otherwise, by already having an established infrastructure for whatever may be needed. ...

While a laudable goal, I think I'd concentrate instead on a cable path: trays, tracks, mouse holes, etc.
1a) You have little guarantee that four NL4s will be enough or the proper connector.
1b) rwhealey has a good point--what about power and signal for powered arrays?
2) Road people are automatically suspicious of, and try in all cases not to use, house wiring.
3) I can't see line arrays suspended from a winched batten. How big is the room? Maybe just engineer in a set of hang points [minimum two per side], to which hoists can be attached as needed?
4) Will the lighting position be just DS of the prosc. arch, in the middle of the 18' apron, or DS of the DS edge? (Whatever you decide, the soundpersons will want it someplace else.)

 

[MNicolai]

There aren't a ton of options for rigging points. If they want speakers suspended downstage of the arch, they'd either have to be inline with our intended beam to suspend the rigging from, or not at all. All of the other nearby beams in the ceiling of the house are obscured by acoustical clouds such that chain hoists would not be usable. Even at that, we still need to have a structural engineer to tell us whether or not the beam we're looking at can even be load-bearing or not.

And I have sort of gotten that impression that whichever connectors, numbers of outputs, and gage of wiring we use simply may never be what's needed. For our internal purposes, we would never use them. With touring groups, maybe once a year, if that, they would have line arrays, maybe. If those few groups then choose to use their own cabling anyways, the entire idea of this is a wash.

But the facility has only been open a year, so I want to ensure that any capital projects we pursue, we do it with the full intent of being open-minded about the future of the facility and the ever-changing demands that might be asked of it.

Now, outputs may not be useful, but if they were to hang their line arrays from this position, what kind of load are we talking about? Obviously, each group is going to be different, and some choose to also fly their subs, but for a 750-seat theatre, what would be a reasonably sized array, weight-wise? (I know, I know, this question is nearly impossibly to answer with any accuracy to our specific situation, but entertain me for a moment)

 

[derekleffew]

The Meyer MICA is a popular system for theatre use. See this pdf: http://www.meyersound.com/pdf/products/quickfly/MG-MICA_assembly_guide.pdf.

 

[mstaylor]

QSC makes a very nice mini rig that would work in that room nicely.

 

[TimmyP1955]

If you have house cables - up there - it will be impossible to connect them until everything is motored up. So the rigger will have to stay up there and make the connections, or someone will have to go up to make them. Neither will be much liked, methinks .

The alternative is to have your cables attached up there and hanging to the floor so they can be connected while everything is on the floor. This works, but it eliminates much of the advantage of house cables (they won't come all the way down, but they will still be dangling).

 

[Footer]

I would not concern yourself too much with flying a array on this position. I doubt anyone will actually hang from it. If they do, they will set their motors on the truss and go that way. Also, adding that much weight to the end of your truss is going to really throw off your truss loading. If you want to add points for an array, just drop some steel where you think it should go... but I would not mix the two. When an array is going into the air really weird things happen loading wise. I would not want to try to be flying two at once and be on a static point. Overall, this is going to increase your overall truss size, increase your number of points, and mess with your trim after you get the array attached.

 

[Chris15]

Whatever you install will not be enough.
A number of small arrays are also using NL8s not NL4s...