Sandwich Panel Platforms

DRU

Active Member
For my upcoming production in May, I need to build a ramp. The ramp itself will be 3ft wide and 8ft long, and will come down from a platform 2ft off the deck to a platform 1ft off the deck, all stationary. I was researching building a stressed skin platform to solve this when I came across this page (http://www.theatreface.com/profiles/blogs/sandwich-core-panels) Since I have a little extra time and a little extra budget for this show, I thought it would be a good learning opportunity for me to build this ramp sandwich platform style. I was going to follow the above blog's plan of 1/2" ply on both sides with 2" foam between. But some questions emerged that I hope someone here with experience with constructing these could answer:

1. What type of glue should I use? The blog does not specify what type of glue to use. A quick browse around the internet didn't turn up too much except one site that said to use a polyurethane glue. I know that Gorilla Glue is a polyurethane adhesive. The other options I keep in my shop are Titebond II wood glue and 3M Fastbond 30NF green contact adhesive.

2. Is there a specific type of foam I should use? I have access to 2" extruded polystyrene (http://www.menards.com/main/p-2359308-c-5779.htm) and 2" expanded polystyrene (http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...d-polystyrene-insulation/p-1934680-c-5779.htm). The expanded costs 50% less, which would be nice, but I don't want to cut corners on cost if it means a poorly-made product.

In terms of weight on it, there will be 5 elementary-middle school aged kids going up and down multiple times during the show. I can also easily add 2x4 support to this wherever I need it, studwalls, legs, or both, and if I don't feel comfortable putting the kids on it, I can easily scrap it and make something else with more framing/support. But like I said before, I think it's a good opportunity to try something new.
 
If its only foam, the American Plywood Association would say is a SIP or structural insulated panel, and not a SSP or stressed skin panel. Some semantics. I have experience with the SSPs but not making SIPs.

I am pretty sure the commercial manufactures like Wenger, SECOA, and Stageright, use a (water cured) polyurethane. I forget which of those use foam and which use honeycomb. I do know that a continuous coating and bond are essential.

Good luck. Probably others here who can help more. Please report back.

PS - extruded polystyrene for sure of the two. Polyiso also works, but more expensive yet.
 
Keep us posted. I'm really curious how those turn out. I too would love to experiment with them.
 
I found this publication on sandwich panels from the APA (https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/bsc.ca.gov/sibr/org.apawood.U814.pdf). I was going to do the calculations found in the publication to get an idea of the bending and shear, but I'm a little fuzzy on what's what, and my Structural Design for the Stage book is not nearby.

-Is A1 and A2 the cross-sectional area of the test section (using 1/2" plywood with a maximum unsupported span of 48"=24in² for both) or is it the area of the unsupported length depth-wise (48" maximum unsupported span 36" deep=1728"²)

-Is the E value for the plywood, the foam, or a calculation of both?
 
E is plywood and E-sub-C is the core or foam in your case.

I kind of feel the diagram is wrong regards A1 and A2, but somehow relates to the veneers of ply parallel with the span.

Its been too many years since Ben's structures class......
 
For my upcoming production in May, I need to build a ramp. The ramp itself will be 3ft wide and 8ft long, and will come down from a platform 2ft off the deck to a platform 1ft off the deck, all stationary. I was researching building a stressed skin platform to solve this when I came across this page (http://www.theatreface.com/profiles/blogs/sandwich-core-panels) Since I have a little extra time and a little extra budget for this show, I thought it would be a good learning opportunity for me to build this ramp sandwich platform style. I was going to follow the above blog's plan of 1/2" ply on both sides with 2" foam between. But some questions emerged that I hope someone here with experience with constructing these could answer:

1. What type of glue should I use? The blog does not specify what type of glue to use. A quick browse around the internet didn't turn up too much except one site that said to use a polyurethane glue. I know that Gorilla Glue is a polyurethane adhesive. The other options I keep in my shop are Titebond II wood glue and 3M Fastbond 30NF green contact adhesive.

2. Is there a specific type of foam I should use? I have access to 2" extruded polystyrene (http://www.menards.com/main/p-2359308-c-5779.htm) and 2" expanded polystyrene (http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...d-polystyrene-insulation/p-1934680-c-5779.htm). The expanded costs 50% less, which would be nice, but I don't want to cut corners on cost if it means a poorly-made product.

In terms of weight on it, there will be 5 elementary-middle school aged kids going up and down multiple times during the show. I can also easily add 2x4 support to this wherever I need it, studwalls, legs, or both, and if I don't feel comfortable putting the kids on it, I can easily scrap it and make something else with more framing/support. But like I said before, I think it's a good opportunity to try something new.
It Seems like you're describing a triscuit1 Tech Note 4 Triscuits The design
 
For my upcoming production in May, I need to build a ramp. The ramp itself will be 3ft wide and 8ft long, and will come down from a platform 2ft off the deck to a platform 1ft off the deck, all stationary. I was researching building a stressed skin platform to solve this when I came across this page (http://www.theatreface.com/profiles/blogs/sandwich-core-panels) Since I have a little extra time and a little extra budget for this show, I thought it would be a good learning opportunity for me to build this ramp sandwich platform style. I was going to follow the above blog's plan of 1/2" ply on both sides with 2" foam between. But some questions emerged that I hope someone here with experience with constructing these could answer:

1. What type of glue should I use? The blog does not specify what type of glue to use. A quick browse around the internet didn't turn up too much except one site that said to use a polyurethane glue. I know that Gorilla Glue is a polyurethane adhesive. The other options I keep in my shop are Titebond II wood glue and 3M Fastbond 30NF green contact adhesive.

2. Is there a specific type of foam I should use? I have access to 2" extruded polystyrene (http://www.menards.com/main/p-2359308-c-5779.htm) and 2" expanded polystyrene (http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...d-polystyrene-insulation/p-1934680-c-5779.htm). The expanded costs 50% less, which would be nice, but I don't want to cut corners on cost if it means a poorly-made product.

In terms of weight on it, there will be 5 elementary-middle school aged kids going up and down multiple times during the show. I can also easily add 2x4 support to this wherever I need it, studwalls, legs, or both, and if I don't feel comfortable putting the kids on it, I can easily scrap it and make something else with more framing/support. But like I said before, I think it's a good opportunity to try something new.
Sounds like a triscuit1
 
UPDATE: I bought the materials and the glue last week, and yesterday and today I made a small test piece. The piece measured 8"x4'. I cut the pieces to size and laid them out on the work table. The Gorilla Glue said to "rough up" the faces receiving the glue to give it more surface area to grip. I used a sureform to rough up the foam a bit, but did nothing to the C-side of the 1/2" BC ply. I squirted the glue in a zig-zag pattern on the wood and used a dry brush to spread it around. I used a squirt bottle to wet the foam (I didn't want the water to cause the wood to warp). I put the first piece of plywood and the foam together and let them sit for two hours under weight to set, then I removed the weight and did the same to the other side of the foam and with the other plywood piece, then put the whole thing under weight for 24hours per the glue's instructions.

24 hours later, I pulled the weight off and removed the test piece. I stacked four pieces of 2x4 on the floor, 2 piles of 2, to support the ends. I laid the test piece on top and stood on the unsupported middle. It supported me! I then jumped up and down on it, and I felt very little deflection. I had my painter (weighing approx. 240lbs) stand on the center of the test piece and I measured the deflection to be a little less than 1/8".

I do want to try another test piece before the final construction, but I do have some questions:

1. How would I best "rough up" the plywood for a better hold with the glue? My thought was very shallow dado cuts, but I would like something quicker than making multiple table saw passes. I was also thinking of battering it with an angle grinder to make random, small indentations.

2. Is there an easier way to spread the glue? The brush spreads the glue okay, and with a small piece it works fine, but with a 3'x8' platform, it would take too long and be an annoyance.
 
For spreading the glue I'd be inclined to try some sort of non-porous roller. I doubt the plywood needs any roughing up, but if it does, a very coarse sanding should be all that is needed.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back