Stage collapse at a political rally in Mexico

My feeling is that if the ground would have taken them, proper ground stakes would have been more effective than ballast.
Stakes are inferior to ballast, mostly because of the inconsistent of the ground itself, and require pull testing to be suitable for our use. There are some really good options out there like the Duck Bill ground anchors, but they are also expensive and a one time use (unless your stage is set up in the same spot annually. )
 
Interesting - on BR a member who tours big tops has in the past said the opposite, because ballast can move just as we've surmised this did.
 
One of TT's finding in Indiana was that they had no understanding of the structure's limits which made it challenging for event organizers to understand where the cut-off threshold needs to be in spite of any meteorology reports they may have been receiving. That's in no way any excuse, but it puts a lot of pressure on whoever's making the call if they don't know the breaking point. Whereas if you know the structure will at risk at a certain threshold, it's no longer an emotional decision a dozen people are going to argue about. The process becomes much more black and white.

In Mexico, Maynes (the presidential candidate hosting the event) described it on TV as a freak gust of wind that couldn't be predicted which is about what you'd expect a politician to say, but my understanding was that there were some degree of high wind warning, and like I said in a prior post though -- historical weather data seemed to show sporadic gusts at similar times of day several times in the last few weeks so there's a good chance this wasn't an uncommon weather event in that area from air coming out of the mountains.
Part of the reason there was "no understanding" was this: the Fair had the roof structure reconfigured, both for the upstage parking/traffic area guy line clearance, and to redistribute some of the roof load to accommodate changes in artist-supplied LX and VDO from previous years. The vendor's structural engineer did not do a new analysis or review, instead using the previous year's calculations. In the T-T review of the previous year's calculations, T-T determined there were significant errors. So now we have old, wrong numbers used.

It turns out that James Thomas Engineering also had some "wishful thinking" ratings for some of the structural components that were used, and T-T found JTE removed on line access to catalog pages and engineering documents soon after the roof failure. T-T found back ups of those pages and included them in their analysis of the ISF roof failure. In a nutshell, the roof structure was not erected according to the design; the engineering supporting the design was flawed and incorrect for the client-ordered configuration changes.

It's what happens when a long term vendor/client relationship exists and nobody checked the other's work.

Now, about Witt Associates. They looked at the emergency plans and procedures created by the Indiana State Fair Board, Indiana State Patrol, Indy PD, and other first response agencies. The distillation of the Witt review kind of came down to this: y'all had a really good plan for what to do AFTER "the bad thing happens" but was incomplete and lacking comprehensive scale and definitive order of authority for how to handle threats as they emerged. Things like who makes the weather call and what those criteria are, if that person has authority to order shelter in place or evacuation of the site; to cancel, postpone, or play the show, etc.

pre-post PS: The ISF roof structure is owned by the Fair, and was erected and removed under contract by the Fair's sound/LX supplier. One would assume that such a spectacular failure would be the end of a company but the amount of contributory negligence by the Fair (regarding the lack of coherent command and control over the show itself, and lack of supervison of the structure) likely led the State to settle claims and assume most of the liability. We'll never know for sure as all the settlements were covered under NDAs.
 
Stakes are inferior to ballast, mostly because of the inconsistent of the ground itself, and require pull testing to be suitable for our use. There are some really good options out there like the Duck Bill ground anchors, but they are also expensive and a one time use (unless your stage is set up in the same spot annually. )
I disagree. I will not work on ballast-guy stages. I've seen too many sketchy implementations including sliding ballast in high wind situations.

ALL and I mean that in all-caps, in the largest possible font... ALL forms of anchorage need to be evaluated with respect to the the soil conditions in situ. Stakes, permanent dead-man anchors, or ballast do not matter; what is important is the proposed anchorage is suitable for THAT load on THAT day in/on THAT soil. And I want that on a stamped engineering drawing, thankyouverymuch.

edit PS: I joined the Event Safety Alliance about 30 minutes after I got Jim Digby's email. Nobody should die for a good time.
 
I disagree. I will not work on ballast-guy stages. I've seen too many sketchy implementations including sliding ballast in high wind situations.

ALL and I mean that in all-caps, in the largest possible font... ALL forms of anchorage need to be evaluated with respect to the the soil conditions in situ. Stakes, permanent dead-man anchors, or ballast do not matter; what is important is the proposed anchorage is suitable for THAT load on THAT day in/on THAT soil. And I want that on a stamped engineering drawing, thankyouverymuch.

edit PS: I joined the Event Safety Alliance about 30 minutes after I got Jim Digby's email. Nobody should die for a good time.
In contrast all the engineers I work with in roof designs including Clark Reder Engineering specify ballast.

The reality is as you said, both are useless if not installed properly.
 
In contrast all the engineers I work with in roof designs including Clark Reder Engineering specify ballast.

The reality is as you said, both are useless if not installed properly.
I have great respect for CRE, but I will not work with stage roofs having ballasted guylines... unless the engineer is willing to spend his/her/their time on that stage - from beginning of the build until the last truck is loaded - under all conditions. No? Then nobody else should, either. Like rigging - either I stand under my work, or I don't do the work. To my thinking there is no compromise, there are no "acceptable conditions." Either those who do the work and make the plans are willing to risk their own personal safety, or the work/design/plan is NOT SAFE.

Put your child's birthday party on that stage, under that roof, or under/on the structure in question. No? Then not me, not my crew, not my artist.
 
I draw a lot of structures, indoor and outdoor, that get stamped and certified. I have the exact same motto. Either I'm comfortable for my kids to sleep on that stage, or I don't put it up.

That being said, a high wind action plan is ALWAYS a part of that certification. Either something crazy happened here, or that plan wasn't followed. As @MNicolai pointed out, high wind in this location is no surprise.
 

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