Taping Breakers

[Hughesie]

Recently i worked out that something that is common place at a place where i work is infact increasingly stupid.

Have a switchpanel substation for the "sound" power outlets so at the end of the night instead of crawling under our sound riser we can just turn off the amps and flick these switches, as this power is the most reliable (due to being grounded in venue to remove hum issues) our security system also runs off it so when someone mistakenly turns off all the breakers our security system dies. To combat this someone decided to tape over the breaker to stop people turning it off.

This is amazingly stupid but i wonder how many other places this happens at, does anyone know why this is so bad bad.


p.s im looking at our more junior members as our senior members are well experienced in the reasons why this is bad.

 

[slimrocktwo]

If there was a short somewhere in the line, the breaker wouldn't trip because it's taped in the on position, which could then lead to equipment damage & fire, right?

 

[seanandkate]

Even if there WASN'T a short it would be increadibly stupid. The breaker limits the electrical load that can be put on that circuit. Think of it as a shear pin on something mechanical. If too much load is put on, say, my snowblower (yea, that's right, I'm Canadian), the shear pin snaps instead of my engine blowing up. A circuit breaker taped in the on position will LET you overload that circuit. That is until the wires between the circuit and the load heat up, cause a fire, burn the place down, etc., and generally wreaking Darwinian revenge on the people who taped the breakers up in the first place.

 

[Sony]

Actually, taping the circuit breaker is fine...the inside mechanics of the circuit breaker let it trip even when being held in the ON position. If you notice how when a breaker trips it moves to the center position and not one side of the other. Now try moving that breaker from the center position directly to the ON position...it does NOTHING. In order to reset the breaker you have to turn it all the way to the OFF position and then back ON to reset the linkages on the inside of the breaker. It's a safety design feature, because they know it's a common practice for people to tape over breakers.

If you're truly worried about it then just tape it over with a small amount of Masking Tape or Painters Tape instead of Duct Tape or whatever you're using. Masking/Painters tape is in no way strong enough to keep a breaker from tripping.

 

[derekleffew]

Sourced from: Circuit breaker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The design includes the following components:

1. Actuator lever - used to manually trip and reset the circuit breaker. Also indicates the status of the circuit breaker (On or Off/tripped). Most breakers are designed so they can still trip even if the lever is held or locked in the "on" position. This is sometimes referred to as "free trip" or "positive trip" operation.
2. Actuator mechanism - forces the contacts together or apart.
3. Contacts - Allow current when touching and break the current when moved apart.
4. Terminals
5. Bimetallic strip
6. Calibration screw - allows the manufacturer to precisely adjust the trip current of the device after assembly.
7. Solenoid
8. Arc divider / extinguisher

I'm not in any manner condoning the practice, but it may not be as unsafe as one thinks.

Perhaps more dangerous is the practice of using the circuit breaker as a switch, solely for convenience: "instead of crawling under our sound riser we can just turn off the amps and flick these switches." It appears someone needs to learn the difference between a circuit breaker and a switch, and why they are not interchangeable terms or devices. See this post.

 

[cdub260]

Assuming of course, that breakers in Australia are the same as in the U.S., you can mark a breaker by putting a colored zip tie through the hole in the hole in the breaker handle. Unlike tape, this will not defeat the tripping capability of your circuit breaker.

That said, a circuit breaker should never be used as a switch. Its intended use is as an over-current protection device. Using it as a switch can, over time, inhibit the proper functioning of the breaker, eventually creating a serious safety issue. I have similar issues in my 60 year old amphitheatre, which, hopefully, I'll eventually get permission to deal with. So far, the powers that be have taken an attitude of of "if it aint broke, don't fix it."

That brings to mind a question. How do I convince the management of my company that this is an issue that needs to be addressed?

 

[Hughesie]

That brings to mind a question. How do I convince the management of my company that this is an issue that needs to be addressed?

Sit them down and make them watch a csi episode where the breakers don't trip and the person dies

 

[lieperjp]

I'm not in any manner condoning the practice, but it may not be as unsafe as one thinks.

Perhaps more dangerous is the practice of using the circuit breaker as a switch, solely for convenience: "instead of crawling under our sound riser we can just turn off the amps and flick these switches." It appears someone needs to learn the difference between a circuit breaker and a switch, and why they are not interchangeable terms or devices. See this post.

Also, I would think that if a breaker is loosely taped, or taped with a "stretchable" tape (such as e-tape) the switch would still be able to function. I've also seen it where people put brightly colored tape (red e-tape comes to mind) over the non-switch part of the breaker, or next to the breaker on the metal portion of the panel. That way, they are still marked.

 

[Pip]

In my opinion, regardless of how the breaker works or if the switch itself is involved, I still don't like the idea of in ANY way interfering with what is in place to keep you safe.

If there was any failure or overload that would normally cause the circuit breaker to trip, and the tape somehow, even though you say it's not possible, caused that safety mechanism to fail, you're potentially risking peoples LIVES.

I'd say tape a piece of paper above it that hangs over the breaker that says "don't flip this switch" or whatever.

 

[Chris15]

Dude, NOTHING wrong with taping a breaker on. They make devices for things like security systems that allow you to LOCK the breaker on (probably the same things used for lock out). BUT this falls over in the case of a three phase joined breaker, as it relies on the movement of the toggle to cut off the other phases.

What brand are the breakers?

If the long term view is to keep killing the main power, then get a contactor installed to do it without killing off your breakers...

But I've been working for a couple of weeks in broadcast land and power down is called walk to switchboard and flick breakers...

This gets done week in week out and so far nothing has failed. What it would mean is that the breakers would trip more easily. This should technically be safer but rather awkward if it goes down in the middle of a live broadcast...

 

[Hughesie]

Here is the image of the switchboard in question

 

[Chris15]

Email Westinghouse it looks like. Simplest answer would be to have the alarm breaker moved to position number 12 with the 2 spaces between sound and it. Or do the smart thing and get it put onto dirty power so it doesn't run the risk of bring hum into the audio power they went to the effort of having put in...

 

[Hughesie]

Well despite being in our theatre its our IT departments problem and i happen to know that is also our mail server . Last time we turned it off bad things happened, so we won't be changing anything that involves us turning it off for at least 12 weeks.

btw i took that picture today and promptly moved the tape and markered the breaker as "do not turn off"

 

[Chris15]

Well despite being in our theatre its our IT departments problem and i happen to know that is also our mail server .

Issue number one... Get the server room on dedicated breakers...

Last time we turned it off bad things happened, so we won't be changing anything that involves us turning it off for at least 12 weeks.

UPS...

 

[Hughesie]

This is the rack in question

The evil piece of computer hardware im talking about is at the top .


It has a ups which gives us a really nice buzz when its operating

 

[Pip]

Dude, NOTHING wrong with taping a breaker on. They make devices for things like security systems that allow you to LOCK the breaker on (probably the same things used for lock out). BUT this falls over in the case of a three phase joined breaker, as it relies on the movement of the toggle to cut off the other phases.

What brand are the breakers?

If the long term view is to keep killing the main power, then get a contactor installed to do it without killing off your breakers...

But I've been working for a couple of weeks in broadcast land and power down is called walk to switchboard and flick breakers...

This gets done week in week out and so far nothing has failed. What it would mean is that the breakers would trip more easily. This should technically be safer but rather awkward if it goes down in the middle of a live broadcast...

Haha good point...

 

[midgetgreen11]

There are a number of breakers on our dimmer rack that have been masking-taped in the "on" position... I'm not quite sure why...

 

[Sayen]

If I'm reading this right, it sounds like my first classroom. When I moved in I had to use the breaker panel to turn the lights on and off, but that also included necessary electrics and the heating/cooling for the building. Several switches were taped over. The easy solution was to pay an electrician to install switches outside of the panel for lights and what have you, and then leave the breakers untampered with. For a permanent installation I don't think I'd want to be playing with breakers or relying on tape for an extended period of time.

 

[Eboy87]

Dude, if you have a mail server in your audio rack with a dirty UPS, I'd say you have a few more issues than people taping over breakers.

As for taping over breakers, the things are designed to trip, whether held closed or not. Has anyone seen the high voltage switches where the lever can be padlocked in the "on" position? We have a few in the scene shop that'll trip even though they're padlocked (that was a bad day, the one that tripped was the A/C, and it was summertime in St. Louis). Our worklights are controlled by a Rosco panel with the pretty green/red buttons to turn them on and off. I assume it works by a relay, and one of them is shot, so if we want to turn off the upstage work lights, I have to flip a breaker. It's been like that for four years, and while I'm not condoning the practice, nothing bad has happened so far. Still, I generally hate touching anything in a breaker panel, including the breakers themselves (I have a thing about not being electrocuted; it makes my day go so much better).

 

[philhaney]

We use breaker locks at the store where I work that we purchased at our local hardware store. They look like the one in the picture, except they have a screw, where the arrow is, to hold them onto the breaker lever.

The breakers still trip when overloaded just fine (no this doesn't happen often). I just loosen the screw, remove the lock, reset the breaker, and reapply the lock.

Please note: These locks will fit on the breaker either way, so they can also be used on a breaker you don't want turned on (NOT as a safety lockout! Just for convenience).