Thoughts please

[ChaoticMoth]

I'm going to let everyone know in advance this is post is partly to find out other peoples thoughts and partly to let off some steam after a conversation I've recently had. Bit of background info first. I volunteer at a local theatre that has just reopened. We lack money and equipment and the equipment that we have is old or in need of repair etc. We currently use a Strand LBX board that is in desperate need of work or needs to be replaced. After speaking to a local lighting suppliers they advised that they can look to repair but would probably find it hard to get parts if anything has to be replaced. They did say that they had a second hand Leapfrog 96 board with flight case for £2000 inc VAT. After speaking to the theatre they have said no it is not worth investing in this board at the moment in time, as we do not use any movers and only use generics. Is it me or is this a stupid point of view to take.

 

[RonHebbard]

Hello!

What specifically is wrong with your LBX? There are several in my area, granted they've been well cared for, no spilled liquids or potato chips, covered nightly, internal battery replaced once. Parts are difficult to source but there's one shop in my part of Canada still capable of servicing. If it's been driven over and mauled by ill-mannered teenagers that's a different situation.
GSX's in my area, similar story.
The GSX and LBX twins are capable of outputting AMX192, DMX512 and at least one other protocol not used much in North America, which output(s) are you using / what protocol is required to communicate with your dimmers?

I can speak to Strand consoles. (and most of them hear and understand me.)
I'm not a shrink and won't speak to management issues. ;^)

From the colonies.

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[ChaoticMoth]

We've pretty much just taken over the theatre. The previous managements idea of a tech was someone who knew the difference between stage right and stage left, so the board has not been loved and cared for, they also didn't really put on many shows (approx 2 a YEAR!). The board is only used to run generics, we use approx 60 - 70 channels.I'm still quite new to this so am not totally clear on what protocol it uses ( I apologize for my stupidity ). One of the main issues that we have is lack of money and also location (live in South Wales, Not the nice sunny one in Australia, but the cold damp one in UK) as there does not seem to be many people around who stock parts for a board that old.
Many Thanks, Dave

 

[DuckJordan]

Why do you need parts? If it ain't broke don't fix it. If you have financial constraints fix or improve what actually needs upgrading not what new toy you should get that you'll likely never use to its potential. BTW just a pet peve its conventionals not practicals. Practicals are built into the set. Conventionals are non movers/non led


Edit: misread generics as practicals, what specific fixtures do you have?

 

[ChaoticMoth]

There are a lot of small issues with the board that make life difficult. For example, our grand master slider only goes down to 80% and then cuts out to blackout. There are channel sliders that control more than one channel (eg. if you raise channel 5 then channel 7 will also go up). We've had problems previously deleting cues where we have been unable to delete cues and the only way we can remove them is by doing a reset on the board. It's not so much of the board is broke or does not work, its more a case of it does not work as well as the manual says it should. With regards to what parts are needed exactly we are unsure haven't really had the chance (or guts) to take the board apart.

 

[dbaxter]

If your dimmers can speak DMX, then you might consider not using the Strand at all, but instead visit either the Enttec or DMX King sites and try some of the software packages compatible with their interfaces. There are packages for both Mac and Windows, depending on your preference. Your total cost would certainly be less than 2000.

 

[RonHebbard]

There are a lot of small issues with the board that make life difficult. For example, our grand master slider only goes down to 80% and then cuts out to blackout. There are channel sliders that control more than one channel (eg. if you raise channel 5 then channel 7 will also go up). We've had problems previously deleting cues where we have been unable to delete cues and the only way we can remove them is by doing a reset on the board. It's not so much of the board is broke or does not work, its more a case of it does not work as well as the manual says it should. With regards to what parts are needed exactly we are unsure haven't really had the chance (or guts) to take the board apart.

Hello David;

You don't have an exclusive on lack of funds and/or experienced, knowledgeable management, we have more than enough to go around over here in the colonies.

Let's get into your LBX issues.

On the rear of the board you should find a cable that carries control signals to your dimmers.
The cable will be detachable via a connector.
The connector will mate with a receptacle on the rear of your board.
There will be, from memory, three different connectors and they'll be labelled.
Typical labels will be: DMX, AMX and at least one other that I can't recall.
The connectors are different as each is a standard for its specific control protocol and also to avoid mis-plugging in a hurry in the dark.
Which connector your dimmers are plugged into will tell you which protocol you need to control the dimmers presently in use.
Protocol converters exist but let's not get into that yet.

"our grand master slider only goes down to 80% and then cuts out to blackout."
Unless it has suffered severe damage it should be cleanable, serviceable, replaceable and available.
Even if nothing's done about this, you can go a long way on an LBX without ever needing to move the grand master from full, there are other subservient submasters you can utilize, so long as they're working, also you can always program a submaster of your choosing to be 'inhibitive' and put ALL channels in it; thus a second grand master effectively in series with the original.
(Holy run-on sentence Bat Man!!)

"There are channel sliders that control more than one channel (eg. if you raise channel 5 then channel 7 will also go up)."
Dimmer 7 will also go up I'll believe. If channel 7 is also going up that'd be a different story.
My first thought is this is a soft patch issue.
Appreciate the differences between soft patching and hard patching, internal software vs. physical cables and connectors.
Read about patching in your LBX manual.
Be sure you understand the difference between channels and dimmers.
Also be sure you understand the difference between an active soft patch and an alternate soft patch.
Setting the active patch to factory default MAY resolve this issue.

"We've had problems previously deleting cues where we have been unable to delete cues and the only way we can remove them is by doing a reset on the board."
Lots more to chat about here; possible 'pilot error', possibly not executing second confirmation commands.
You should be able to delete cues in Preview. Realize they'll still be on stage until next recalled from memory.
Many work-arounds spring to mind; record over a cue no longer wanted, move unloved cues to the end of your stack, lot's of ways.

Moving on;

Does the disc drive still work, both recording and loading?
Do you have the difficult to source correct discs?
Do you have the original discs supplied with the board and can they still be successfully loaded into the board?
Can you still see the clock display on the monitor?
Is it keeping accurate time?
If the clock display is no longer visible the board's internal battery is extremely low and likely no longer accepting a full charge.

"With regards to what parts are needed exactly we are unsure haven't really had the chance (or guts) to take the board apart."
If you're not experienced at servicing the innards of electronics I'd suggest you don't open your board. Static charges from your body could easily damage your board.

Let's chat further and see where we get to.

Tag! You're it!!

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[derekleffew]

... Typical labels will be: DMX, AMX and at least one other that I can't recall. ...

D54.

Image from http://www.strandarchive.co.uk/control/memory/lbx/lbx_datasheet.pdf at The Strand Archive - LBX :

They're labeled on the console, but conveniently:
DMX512 is 5pin XLR [#6 above]
AMX192 is 4pin XLR [#5 above]
D54 is 3pin XLR [#4 above].

More on the three control protocol s at Pathway Connectivity, an Acuity Brands Company - Lighting Control Protocols - Part 2 if anyone is interested.

 

[ChaoticMoth]

It appears that the board uses the DMX512 protocol (many thanks for diagram ) We have found a lot of workarounds for some of the problems that we encounter. Moving on though the clock on monitor does display the time and in general keep time quite well. We do have problems finding discs, and as we do not have the original discs that came with the board not totally sure if the drive still works.

 

[RonHebbard]

It appears that the board uses the DMX512 protocol (many thanks for diagram ) We have found a lot of workarounds for some of the problems that we encounter. Moving on though the clock on monitor does display the time and in general keep time quite well. We do have problems finding discs, and as we do not have the original discs that came with the board not totally sure if the drive still works.

Hello David;

Dig into the soft-patch as previously suggested.
Be sure the patch you're looking at / editing is the patch in use, the 'live' patch.
Often folks inadvertently end up editing the patch that isn’t currently ‘live’ and swear up and down there’s a problem in the board when the problem’s actually in front of it. ;^)

Create your own new grand master, as described previously in an edit I made to one of my previous posts, if you really must have a fully functioning grand master.

Now that you know which control protocol your dimmers are expecting you're in a better position to consider replacement boards; borrowed, rented, purchased, whatever. DMX-512 is one of the commonest protocols here in North America.

Cleaning the board; yes, from the outside without disassembly, is never a bad thing.
Avoid getting liquids into the board, through fader slots for example.
Vacuum liberally, ideally with a decent vacuum employing a convenient hose, possibly with a circular narrowing attachment.
Be sure all fader handles are securely attached or remove them and set aside.
Power up the vacuum, place the hose over a slider fairly snuggly; using the hose, slide the slider up and down several times through the full range of its travel, avoid slamming sliders into their ends of travel, move on to another slider and repeat ad nauseum.

Check that the vacuum cleaner next to your feet isn’t blowing fine dust into the air you and your board are breathing.
A shop vac’ recently used to suck up drywall dust would be a poor choice.
Leaving the slider handles in place is quicker and you'll know where to find any that go missing.
Pulling off any loose handles in advance is probably an acceptable compromise.

You won't believe how much . . excrement the vacuum will pull out of a seldom cleaned board, sound boards too: hairs, broken finger nails, remains of various food-stuffs, dead bugs, eraser debris, an occasional live bug. Vacuuming; always a fine idea.

Avoid blowing forceful air into your board.
Shop air will likely include lubricants intended to make life better for pneumatic tools.
Any airstream sufficiently narrow and forceful is somewhat akin to water jet cutting.
Don't be grabbing an air hose from your scene shop and letting fly at your lighting board.

Wales;
I've never been there but for decades I've known a lady who manages an arts centre, Rhondda Cynon Taff Community Arts. We worked together at the Stratford Shakespearean Festival for several years in the seventies and eighties here in Ontario, Canada. Small world, you rarely know who knows who.

Thanks for your reply David and don't hesitate to post if any of us can be of use.

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard