Was it me or my wiring?

[ship]

Wifie got her notebook wireless recently and given that for some unknown reason, it was stealing what bandwidth I could get down one floor and thru concrete floors in the garage. Used to be able to get low connection or very low, but after her computer... no connection. Wired the garage up for ethernet over the weekend - good quality tour rated cable - not good enough for Grand MA. thus trash in going TMB version for work at 300' lengths. Strung it thru the roof and down two floors to the garage from the opposing side of the building and still didn’t equal even half that length. Best quality ethernet show cable Clark Wire & Cable has, didn’t work with the Grand MA in extreme lengths, but should be fine with home internet as a concept.

Ran the wire in even fishing it thru a flame resistant condo inter wall - not fun. Went to plug it in keeping one end pre-terminated... and went shopping for ethernet connect wall plates and found no feed thru mounts. Had the extra deep box... Used to using a feed thru female/female for work stuff in not wanting to do punch down.

Instead I found ethernet face panels with screw down terminals as if a telephone or punch down that I didn’t grab tool for. Tested my jumpers and they were good off the wall plates.

In the long jumper to terminal screws? Hate ethernet but noted something like brown, brown stipe, and blue, blue stripe on opposing poles of the connection in the one jumper I terminated and in not twisting up on me in doing so. Could be different in coloring but think I have that concept I did which tested correctly. Than the green was split between one pole and another before orange was between them on the jumper I made. On my telephone like system for screw teminals, I just wired pole to opposing pole without splitting the green.

Could this have an effect in why my ethernet direct link is slow? Should I go back and re-wire the panels? Works but just seems like especially on this website, adds don’t post as fast and I frequently have to refresh the screen to get a good screen. Bod rate without proper pairing incorrect at the walls? (Stuff I heard about in concept.) Direct link should be quick and easy now that I have it I would think.

Ideas on this problem? And what's that tool I hear about to more easily make paired ethernet wire streighen out in fitting into a plug? I like the feed thru punch down versions of them but even with them... luck in getting the wires to go where they should. Dislike Ethernet cable. Still though, could I have not wired the house in long run correctly in doing it in parallel have an effect on this speed?

 

[CrazyTechie]

I just emailed a link to this thread to an IT guy I know and hopefully he may be able to enlighten us.

 

[Sony]

How you terminate the ethernet cable matters A LOT when it comes to speed and reliability of an ethernet connection. There are certain standards that must be followed or a poor connection will result.

The standard can be found here:

TIA/EIA-568 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The TIA-568-B standard is the standard that is most common in the USA but both A or B will work. Both ends of the cable must be terminated in the same way and according to the standard otherwise a poor connection will result.

I own a couple crimp tools and a punchdown tool and they are both worth their weight in gold...they are much more reliable and efficient when it comes to terminating Ethernet cable. I also find them quicker and easier to use once you get the hang of them. Also you want to keep the cable twisted as it was inside it's jacket as close to the termination as possible.

Another thing is Ethernet has a total maximum length of 328' (100 meters) before it needs to be boosted by another switch or plugged into a computer. That includes the cable you plug into the wall, so if you ran 300' of cable and then have a 25' jumper on each end you are over the maximum cable length

 

[ship]

A/B always confuses me in doing so. Have the proper crimp tool.

Overall question perhaps answered in my long run termions? That I ran them parallel in that I should have run pins 3 & 6 spread with one color (same done for both ends), and should have kept pairs twisted until the last possible need for un-doing so.

That correct?

 

[Edrick]

Not sure if I'm just reading it wrong but I can't seem to make heads or tails of what's going on. But I do network installations quite often so hope I can help if you want to ask any specific questions.

The max recommended run for Cat5e is 295' give or take. That's without any switch or computer, etc... between the points.

Make sure your wiring pairs match on both ends. If it's Orange/White, Orange, Green/White, Blue, Blue/White, Green, Brown/White, Brown you've wired it for the TIA-B. So make sure the other end is wired for TIA-B also.

From what I was able to make out one side is pre terminated (molded) and the other end you put your own on? What did you use for the end in the garage. The only acceptable method is either into a patch panel where you actually use a punch down tool to secure it in, via a keystone jack again requiring a punch down, or using a RJ-45 End which you'd use a crimper. If there's any type of stripping of wire and screwing it down you've done it incorrectly.

If you could take photos that'd be a great help too.

 

[ship]

Understand the confusion, same with mine in Alien technology. Sorry if still alien technology to me in concept.

Ok, so I ran show rate qualty cable in my house between floors, but ran it in parallel. Say pins one and two are Brown verses brown stripe and you run thru the colors after that in four solid, and four stripe in the pairs. pins say 1&2, and 7&8 are important to be the same colors. Other colors can be different but it's an index for them and don't matter for the other pins A-B used. Just matters that you have an index for it that isn't similar to the above.

The jumpers from the outles are good. To the outlets in long run, parallel in having run without having split at least one par between pins 3 & 6 - don't know for some drain purposes. My pins in screw terminal wall outlets that lacked proper info on how to wire, I realized that I wired it in parallel instad of splitting some conductor somewhre in providing perhaps index reference.

my cable run to the garag is good stuff but run parallel meaning no conductors finding other than in-line termination.

If I didn't terminate on both ends with say the ground green striped or solid wire in the position of pins 3 & 6 or perhaps 4&5 as I think plan B', is this the cause of a slower internet? Wired it in parallel with out a twisted pair in doing the odd between stuff? That some kind of drain / index in me seperating?

Am I getting that I should in my home center grade screw down plate wall plates, that in running parallel that I was incorrect in doing so? Instead I should have split one conductor with one in between for an index point? Brass tacks.

 

[Sony]

I'm sorry ship but sometimes it is difficult to understand your style of writing. But from what I can glean from this is you didn't wire both ends to the TIA standard and you just ran them all solid/stripe/solid/stripe....etc. Wiring both ends in the TIA standard is VERY important and in the right order as well, the order of termination is specifically designed to reduce crosstalk and without it, high speeds are nearly impossible to achieve. Honestly I would cut off both ends of the cable and terminate it properly to the letter of the TIA standard. The color order of the termination is also very imporant because not only are the pairs twisted together, but the pairs are all interlaced in a specific pattern with all the other pairs inside the jacket in order to reduce crosstalk between pairs and if they are not terminated in the right order then the crosstalk reduction pattern is basically redered useless.

The Pinout for the TIA-568-B standard goes as follows.

Pin 1: Orange w/ White Stripe
Pin 2: Orange
Pin 3: Green w/ White Stripe
Pin 4: Blue
Pin 5: Blue w/ White Stripe
Pin 6: Green
Pin 7: Brown w/ White Stripe
Pin 8: Brown

If looking at the connector with the locking tab facing away from you and the gold terminals facing towards you and up, Pin 1 would be on your left and Pin 8 would be on your right.

Ethernet cables must be terminated in this specific fashion otherwise poor performance will result, also high quality connections are a must as a poor connection will result in lost packets.

 

[FMEng]

To put it simply, any termination with screw terminals will NOT work. All cable and all plugs and jacks have to be rated for Cat-5, Cat-5e, or Cat-6. If they are not so marked, they likely will not work.

"Show cable," if not specifically marked Cat-5 or better will not work for ethernet.

To add to Trevor's comments, if the factory made end of the cable does not match the color code in his post, then it is wired to T-568A standard. It doesn't make any difference to use A or B, except both ends have to be the same.

 

[ship]

To put it simply, any termination with screw terminals will NOT work. All cable and all plugs and jacks have to be rated for Cat-5, Cat-5e, or Cat-6. If they are not so marked, they likely will not work.

"Show cable," if not specifically marked Cat-5 or better will not work for ethernet.

To add to Trevor's comments, if the factory made end of the cable does not match the color code in his post, then it is wired to T-568A standard. It doesn't make any difference to use A or B, except both ends have to be the same.

Wifie says, while why didn't you juat have Tyler do it for you (or any of your guys that work for you do it for you under the master amongst others from work in doing it?) Cuz I'm a guy and can do this...

I hate such technology but think I understood what I did wrong at least and can correct it. But before this in going punch down or feed thru, what is it about the screw terminal Cat.5E that don't work that I bout as ethernet in connection that won't work? It is Cat.5E for termination, just screw mount in plugging in cables to it. What about the screw termination appairently that I didn't do correctly won't work with screw termination on a commercial version with screw terminals? Not like they will be riding around in the back of a truck in loosening up, though one will be on a power miter box wall.

Can do the feed thru terminals but so far thinking I don't need them. Punch block I'm still avoiding.

 

[FMEng]

But before this in going punch down or feed thru, what is it about the screw terminal Cat.5E that don't work that I bout as ethernet in connection that won't work?

Ethernet is operating at radio frequencies (100 MHz or more). Consequently, the physical relationship of the conductors, such as the amount of twisting, the spacing between them, and the insulation properties, all play a critical role in preventing crosstalk, reflections, signal loss and so on. Even severely kinking, crushing or stretching the cable can affect performance. The wrong connector is a like hitting a brick wall at 60 MPH.

Basically, the connector design has to be right or the signal just won't go through it even if there is DC continuity through the pins. No connector with screw terminals will work because the electrical characteristics are wrong at the frequencies the system runs at.

It's the same concept for why you wouldn't use mic cable or leave the end of the run un-terminated for DMX, but ethernet is even more picky.

Go to Home Depot and buy the Leviton Cat 5 jacks and wall plates. They come with a little, plastic tool to punch the wires down with. The tool isn't great but it gets the job done. The jacks have color codes right on them to make it simple. Just don't strip the jacket more than an inch, and maintain pair twist as much as you can and it'll work fine. It'll cost you $15 to do both ends.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

 

[Sony]

Go to Home Depot and buy the Leviton Cat 5 jacks and wall plates. They come with a little, plastic tool to punch the wires down with. The tool isn't great but it gets the job done. The jacks have color codes right on them to make it simple. Just don't strip the jacket more than an inch, and maintain pair twist as much as you can and it'll work fine. It'll cost you $15 to do both ends.

Leviton QuickPort Category 5e Jack - R26-5G108-00W at The Home Depot

Leviton 1-Gang QuickPort 1-Port Wall Plate - R11-41080-1WP at The Home Depot

I used these plates and jacks to wire my current apartment with ethernet, the results were wonderful and the wiring was super easy. I used my own personal punchdown tool however which cuts off excess cable while punching down and has an ergonomical grip, but the tool that comes with them will work just fine.

 

[Dionysus]

Exactly why I have my (expensive) network testing/installation tools. I've done some "smarthome" wiring, and when you have that Cat5e in a house it can be a nightmare. Not to mention facilities with large networks.

Always wire in "B" not "A" (difference in the order of the wires), as most network techs now use this standard. Saves making adapters.

When running cat5 make sure there are no sharp(ish) bends or turns, and keep it as far away from AC as possible. Of course try to cross AC at as close to a 90-degree angle as possible. For home network installation you are actually trained to 'criss-cross' the cable from one stud to the other when moving down the wall to limit interference from nearby AC (personally most of the time I think this a waste of time). Always limit the length of any cat5 cable as much as possible.

You had stated you are using good cable, so that should help things out alot. As long as it is in good condition and properly terminated (and not too long) everything should be fine. I ALWAYS check every cable after doing a termination, to ensure it is well-terminated.

Some routers actually have a cable check function built into them.

A good switch or router, along with a good NIC (network adapter) on your computer go a long way to making your network happy. It can actually make a noticeable difference, especially with long runs.

Try pinging your router from your different locations to see if there is a noticeable difference. If not perhaps it's a software/config/hardware issue on your laptop.

EDIT: I use punch-downs whenever possible. So much better than the crimp-on ends, they are very easy to mess up. If one wire does not fully engage, you can't necessarily visually tell. A good metal punch down tool is expensive. But many components come with the little plastic ones that get the job done. I usually install the wallplates, and often actually a networking panel (more or less a telecom patch bay).

 

[ship]

Thanks to all for the info. Very curious that a store would sell Cat.5E wall plates given the above.

Dislike the punch down tool but have one at work. TBA me following the above directions, verifying my jumpers are wired the same and fixing it. Perhaps even borrowing a long jumper from work and testing the long run before I connect. Got them tools also, just despise such things - got guys for that. Just gotta finish a small wood flooring project first.

 

[venuetech]

Ship
a short video about the subject
YouTube - How to terminate Cat5e Cable - Heads, Keystones, Crossover, etc.

 

[tjk]

Just one additional comment, as seemingly no one else has noted this: In your first post you wrote about one end of the cable being pre-terminated. Does that mean, it has a plug on in? If this is the case its very likely your cable has stranded instead of solid wires in it. You will not be able to attach punch-down connectors to stranded wire. On the other hand a crimp-on connector, as a RJ45 plug will not attach to solid wire. So a working cable with a plug and a faceplate is unlikely.

The right way to do this, is to put a solid wire cable in your walls, attach punch-down connected faceplates to both ends and connect your devices with cheap of-the-store (stranded) patch cables to the faceplates. Just as a side note: Show-grade means nothing but "more rubber around the wires". The magic of twisted pair cabling lies solely in - well - the twistedness of the pairs.

Despite that, my suggestion would be, to keep your wires, keep your screw terminal faceplates and just give it a try, using the correct wire order, as noted before. Do not use punch down connectors on stranded wire. It will just make things worse.

-Thorsten

 

[Chris15]

Just one additional comment, as seemingly no one else has noted this: In your first post you wrote about one end of the cable being pre-terminated. Does that mean, it has a plug on in? If this is the case its very likely your cable has stranded instead of solid wires in it. You will not be able to attach punch-down connectors to stranded wire. On the other hand a crimp-on connector, as a RJ45 plug will not attach to solid wire. So a working cable with a plug and a faceplate is unlikely.

The right way to do this, is to put a solid wire cable in your walls, attach punch-down connected faceplates to both ends and connect your devices with cheap of-the-store (stranded) patch cables to the faceplates. Just as a side note: Show-grade means nothing but "more rubber around the wires". The magic of twisted pair cabling lies solely in - well - the twistedness of the pairs.

Despite that, my suggestion would be, to keep your wires, keep your screw terminal faceplates and just give it a try, using the correct wire order, as noted before. Do not use punch down connectors on stranded wire. It will just make things worse.

-Thorsten

Sorry, but no.
You can get crimp plugs for solid conductors as well as stranded.
You can get away with punching down stranded, but it's not the best move.

The screw terminal connections are unlikely to be Cat5e. They are probably Cat3 and designed for voice grade, in which they will perform acceptably.

Ethernet is no different to DMX or any other signal. Any one thing not to spec is unlikely to kill the chain, but when you put a number in combination things, it all adds up. So if you don't follow colour to pair allocations, for the most part you will be fine, but if you are right at or over the proper limit of length if can quite easily be the difference between working and not working. Of course all this becomes far more critical when dealing with gigabit over 100 Mbps...

Actually show grade can be a bad thing for performance... Because it's touring cable it will be stranded conductors. At 100MHz and beyond, you are really looking at skin effect and so solid conductors by their very nature will perform better. Again not such an issue at short distances, but when you start to push it...

With most modern networking gear, the A/B debate is moot, most things are auto MDI / MDIX so if you end up wiring a crossover cable by getting one end opposite to the other then it will work anyway. But agreed with others, B is the standard unless there is a reason to use A (like a crossover).

 

[FMEng]

Sorry, but no.
You can get crimp plugs for solid conductors as well as stranded.
You can get away with punching down stranded, but it's not the best move.

That's true. The brands I'm familiar with make clear plastic plugs for stranded conductors and smoke colored plugs for solid conductors. I don't know if that is universal. Using the wrong type might work, but it will be unreliable over the long term. Been there, done that.

 

[ship]

That's true. The brands I'm familiar with make clear plastic plugs for stranded conductors and smoke colored plugs for solid conductors. I don't know if that is universal. Using the wrong type might work, but it will be unreliable over the long term. Been there, done that.

Never seen a smoke colored connector before. What I used was a premium quality feed thru connector where you cut the conductors long for easier fit and the crimp tool cuts them off - or for the most part. I did test the connection and it was correct in what I made. The jumpers are both good in testing them both. It's in the wall.

Interesting that it's said that a Cat.5E wall connection with screw terminals is not rated for Cat.5E as that's what it is listed for. The strands were stranded but solid enough to screw terminal I think well.

While tonight there isn't a problem with my connection, there is a problem. I will first attempt to re-connect with version B', than if still a problem perhaps tin the wires and re-twist them some.

Thanks on the advice and normally I would and was looking for other types of outlets, but at home I did differently.

Lively debate with lots of info though. Continue on please and next weekend I'll attempt to re-teminate my connections in seeing if it solves the problem. This beyond the larger debate and good info given.