What is wrong with this photo?

[icewolf08]

So, we opened up this dropbox today as it had been showing some rather odd readings on the GamCheck. Can you see the issue?


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.763071,-111.850946

 

[JD]

You mean beside the hots being labeled neutral, green being used as a hot and labeled neutral, taps being used on a rubber jacketed cable, poor seating on the forth terminal up from the bottom, and that strange screw coming into the unused terminal from the left?

 

[Van]

You mean beside the hots being labeled neutral, green being used as a hot and labeled neutral, taps being used on a rubber jacketed cable, poor seating on the forth terminal up from the bottom, and that strange screw coming into the unused terminal from the left?

What he said.

 

[banjokeith]

I was going to guess the case screw poking through to the strip too

 

[shiben]

So, we opened up this dropbox today as it had been showing some rather odd readings on the GamCheck. Can you see the issue?


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I am here: Google Maps

At least one has a hot/neutral jump, also some serious non-standard wiring?

 

[porkchop]

How about the set screw that's rattled out of it's connection on the bottom right and is now touching the connection for another wire on the left hand side?

 

[SteveB]

All the above.

And your problem is ?.

(grin)

 

[dramatech]

It looks like every other dropbox that was wired by Electro Control. I work in three theatres that have the exact same thing.


Tom Johnson

 

[epimetheus]

...green being used as a hot and labeled neutral...

If you're referring to the top wire on the left, this is permissible on multi-conductor cable using the E1/K1 color code methodolgy, I believe.

 

[icewolf08]

Well, have never given much thought to the fact that there is a lot of green wire coming from the multi, but I think that JD basically nailed it. Every single connection on the pigtail side (right side of the photo) is made with hot and neutral swapped. We first discovered an issue masked behind a unit not working properly. As it was a conventional fixture the reversed wiring would not have really mattered, but whatever issue we were having, led to putting out the GAMCheck and discovering that at least one of the tails was Hot/Neutral reversed.

So, in the air, my first thought is that someone rebuilt the stage pin connector and wired it wrong, upon opening it up, it was correct. So, we take the cover off the box only to find that all six circuits are that way. Needless to say, that became a high priority repair last Friday.

I showed the box to our TD who was impressed that no one had ever noticed that it was wrong since it was installed, 10 years ago. I am not sure if that is really true because the last two ME's before me were not the brightest lights in the rig. I have worked on most of the drop boxes we have in the theatre as they sometimes do have a wire that works loose as we sling them around for every show, and this is the only one that was wired like that. Go figure.

 

[STEVETERRY]

If you're referring to the top wire on the left, this is permissible on multi-conductor cable using the E1/K1 color code methodolgy, I believe.

New 520.44(C)(3) in the 2011 Code:

(3) Identification of Conductors in Multiconductor
Extra-hard Usage Cords and Cables. Grounded (neutral)
conductors shall be white without stripe or shall be identified
by a distinctive white marking at their terminations.
Grounding conductors shall be green with or without yellow
stripe or shall be identified by a distinctive green marking
at their terminations.

ST

 

[epimetheus]

I don't see anything in that code except from ST that says green has to be the grounding conductor. Just that the grounding conductor shall be green, green with yellow stripe, our distinctly marked with green at the terminations. Same with the grounded conductor and white. Am I reading this wrong?

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[tjrobb]

Normally, white/gray and green are the only "reserved" colors- all others are fair game. Standards make it easier and safer for electricians."Blue? Should be C phase in a 120 volt system."

 

[derekleffew]

New 520.44(C)(3) in the 2011 Code: ...

So color codes/methodology such as E1/K1 referenced above are no longer permitted?

What about multi-cable where all conductors are the same color (usually all white or all black) and identified by printing on the insulation?

One example:

Multicable / Multiconductor Cables | Dura-Flex Entertainment Cable Systems

 

[mrb]

What about multi-cable where all conductors are the same color (usually all white or all black) and identified by printing on the insulation?

One example:

Multicable / Multiconductor Cables | Dura-Flex Entertainment Cable Systems

Multicable of that sort is not UL listed (its ul recognized AWM) and as such cant even be hardwired into a building....

 

[epimetheus]

Normally, white/gray and green are the only "reserved" colors- all others are fair game. Standards make it easier and safer for electricians."Blue? Should be C phase in a 120 volt system."

So, when Entergy or Centerpoint uses a 12/C #12 cable with the green wire as the trip signal to a high voltage circuit breaker, they are violating NEC? If that's the case, there are a lot of substations out there that are not code compliant. I just don't see where it says that green can only be used for the ground and white only for neutral. And, to the point of wiring standards, any electrician who assumes the purpose of a wire based on it's color is one I don't want to be working with.

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[mrb]

So, when Entergy or Centerpoint uses a 12/C #12 cable with the green wire as the trip signal to a high voltage circuit breaker, they are violating NEC? If that's the case, there are a lot of substations out there that are not code compliant. I just don't see where it says that green can only be used for the ground and white only for neutral. And, to the point of wiring standards, any electrician who assumes the purpose of a wire based on it's color is one I don't want to be working with.

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utility installations are not governed by the NEC. iirc traffic signals also use green for something other than the EGC

 

[tjrobb]

Right, and that's why it's "should." I run into plenty of variations, and then there is the NESC. Also, in general internal device wiring is under UL and not NEC.