Wire Rope Ladders as Set

[Diarmuid]

I'm working quite a lot at a local school theatre, and have been asked to build/buy/beg/borrow the set for an upcoming school show. In general it's all fairly straightforward stuff, the odd armchair, a couple of pendant light bulbs etc. However the director also wants a wire rope ladder as part of the set. It would be used by two of the kids (12-14 year olds) who would both climb up it at the same time. Whilst the director hasn't specified the height he would like actors to climb to, I'm estimating that he's expecting about 3-4 metres off the floor.
Now there are two problems with this, firstly I've always been told that whenever rope ladders are used a fall arrest system MUST be used with it, and secondly there is also the fact that I know a lot of 12 year old kids who can't be trusted not to fall over whilst sitting down... never mind up a rope ladder.

Basically, my thoughts are NO. But I'd like to see what other people think, just in case this is simply an overactive Health And Safety mindset. Would you be happy with this in your venue? and what control measures would you want for it to happen?
On a semi-tangent, I'm pretty sure I've read on here somewhere that most falls from over 6 feet are fatal, if that is true, does anyone know where I can find that statistic documented? It'd be useful for conversations with directors whenever they mention Working at Height.
Thanks for your help.

 

[ajb]

Basically, my thoughts are NO.

Then you're off to a good start .

Other things to consider:

• What are you securing it to? If it's a counterweight lineset, then absolutely NO, they are NOT suited to dynamic loads, nor fall arrest loads (on the order of 5000lbs).
• Can you find a wire rope ladder listed to support two people at once? I bet not.
• A very very small subset of the 'rigging' hardware out there is listed for lifting. An even smaller subset is indicated for support of human weight.
• What are the safety policies of the school; could you satisfy them assuming your setup is otherwise safe? Are there applicable laws that must be observed?
• Would you be covered by suitable insurance for this, and fully shielded from civil liability? Not to mention the possibility of criminal liability, although I'm not sure how realistic that possibility is absent clear malicious intent on your part.

For other info, including the statistics you're after, and fall protection regulations, you might start with your local or national occupational health and safety authority--then add the fact that you're going to be working with students and adjust accordingly.

 

[MPowers]

First, NO! second, REALLY REALLY NO! Third, there is a way but it will cost. Hire a flying FX company. On this side of the pond, D2-Flying, Foy, ZFX et al. Even though you don't want to "fly" the kids, something along this line is the only safe way to approach it. All the above IMHO.

Michael Powers, Project Manager
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc.
675 NE 45th Place, Des Moines, Iowa, 50313

 

[jwl868]

You may be able to find UK fall statistics at the Health and Safety Executive site (but that’s an educated guess on my part, I’m familiar with the US OSHA regulations). In any case, US OSHA has a great deal of statistics, and if you search their website, I believe that you can find a breakdown of fatalities vs. fall height. (I tried to check, but there appears to be problems with the site right now.)

I don’t think the statement that “most falls from over 6 feet are fatal” is accurate. (In any case, it’s too broad because it includes 6 feet [survivable] and 100 feet [probably not survivable.]) Certainly, one can be killed by a fall of 6 to 10 feet.


Joe

 

[MPowers]

......I don’t think the statement that “most falls from over 6 feet are fatal” is accurate.........

The 6' rule means you must use appropriate fall protection at heights above 6'. It is not that falling six feet is likely to be a fatal fall, it is because an uncontrolled fall from that height or more is very likely to cause personal injury. It can include broken bones, paralysis and fatalities, though a 6' fall is rarely fatal, some kind of injury is almost guaranteed.

Michael Powers, Project Manager
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc.
675 NE 45th Place, Des Moines, Iowa, 50313

 

[derekleffew]

... I don’t think the statement that “most falls from over 6 feet are fatal” is accurate. ...

I believe the exact quote was "80% of falls over six feet reported to OSHA are fatal." The word "reported" is often, intentionally or carelessly, omitted. Falls resulting in no injuries are rarely reported.
Professional performers are seemingly exempt from H&S regs. One will rarely if ever see a trapeze artist in the circus wearing a harness. But other safety methods, including nets and years of training, are implemented. And wire rope ladders are not colloquially called "circus ladders" for nothing.
For OSHA, see Duty to have fall protection. - 1926.501.

All of the above being said, in this case, as MPowers and others have stated, the best answer is NO.

Now the alternative, a rigid ladder "about 3-4 metres off the floor," opens a different discussion.

 

[thenelsontwins]

Agreed.

Over 6' =Fall Arrest

Children on a rope ladder= Sketchy

If these were AEA union actors this would qualify as Extraordinary Risk, which for an adult actor working in a union house on a union show it is, of course, their decision. But special care and liability is taken on by the producer for such maneuvers.

Rigging for humans is a whole different animal.

Although Rope Ladders are simple to build, I have only purchased and used ones that have been manufactured by a reputable company. A stamped tag must also be provided showing the load limits and date of manufacture.

Avoid it.

 

[jwl868]

Tried to find something in OSHA or Bureau of Labor Statistics. The best I could find was link to an analysis of fall data for 1997.

In that year, there were 715 fall fatalities and over 313,000 falls. Of the fatal falls, 15 percent of the fatalities were from falls of 10 feet or less. (The total number of falls from that height range isn’t provided or may not be compiled.). Still, that’s about 100 fatalities from a height that doesn’t look too bad.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/archive/spring2000art4.pdf


Joe

 

[derekleffew]

... Although Rope Ladders are simple to build, I have only purchased and used ones that have been manufactured by a reputable company. A stamped tag must also be provided showing the load limits and date of manufacture.

How convenient that there's an ANSI standard for "construction and use of wire rope ladders in the entertainment industry." ANSI E1.1 - 2006.

 

[Diarmuid]

Thanks for all your comments.

What are you securing it to? If it's a counterweight lineset, then absolutely NO, they are NOT suited to dynamic loads, nor fall arrest loads (on the order of 5000lbs).

The plan suggested was to put scaffolding across two of the joists, as our roof is only about 7m off the deck, of course it hasn't actually been load tested...

... One will rarely if ever see a trapeze artist in the circus wearing a harness. But other safety methods, including nets and years of training, are implemented.

It was something fairly simmilar to this that the director used as a reason it should be fine "but they do it in bigger theatres"... however the point that in bigger theatres they have more resources and more training didn't sink in quite so well.

Thanks for all your help, I'm glad that it wasn't just me being over-cautious (by which I mean it's nice to hear someone not telling me to just relax about it...). I'll try feeding it back up the chain, though somehow I don't think this ones gonna make me too many friends.

Cheers

Diarmuid

 

[jwl868]

UK HSE - Falls from Height Analysis webpage

Priority programmes - Falls from height

Joe

 

[mstaylor]

mpowers answer is best of the other realy good answers. No unless you are hiring a fly company. The director has no clue what he is asking which is why we have techs.

 

[ship]

Can't say to the problems of climbing over six foot without fall protection no matter what way it's done, but perhaps in similar to a truss ladder might be something out of threaded rod or rebar that's weld or bolted if not both? Initial problem with a wire rope ladder after concerns about safety is the ability to do so safely with younger talent. A less flexibl ladder perhap might be more viable though again with fall protection experts hired to do so.

Any specific reason it has to be a wire rope ladder other than that's a known concept? Have to roll up or can it be stiff in being easier to climb?