Design Wiring Gimble? for Revolving stage

You have the right idea, I think. I'd use a commutator/slip ring for the power and go wireless for the DJ's audio signal.

Another method:
... As for passing power/data up your revolve. Having dedicated commutators at the center is by far the best. But if you have to, you can wrap up your cables as long as you unwrap them in the end. For our current revolve, we have to wind cables up, so our preset position is wound in the opposite direction some so that we never wind the cables too much. ...
 
Another way would be to do away with the wires completely. Use a battery and inverter to supply power (head end equipment usually doesn't use that much power.) and wireless for the audio return.
 
What's the DJ equipment? If its a bunch of USB surfaces plugged into a laptop, there might be plenty of options involving internal battery and wireless ethernet.
 
The DJ equipment is 2 Pioneer cdj1000s and a djm850 or 2000 also probably laptops

so glad I found this Forum btw... very cool... been looking for a Forum for lighting designers
you can add me as a friend at www.facebook.com/joeyapple

is there a thread where I can introduce myself to the Forum at large and share some of my shows?
 
How far does it need to rotate? Do you have time to reset it? How was your revolve built? If your revolve pivot is some kind of sleeved pipe situation and you are not spinning in all sorts of circles, but just rotating from point to point, I'd suggest running the wires like how it's down in a moving head, and feed them through the pivot point. If you need to spin in continuous circles, you are going to be spending much more money.

Also: Check out http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/new-member-board/ for all your introduction needs.
 
If you need to spin in continuous circles, you are going to be spending much more money.

So the stage rotates unidirectional in a continuous manner... I wish it was as simple as a rotating head with like a 540pan... the pivot point is a column at the center of the stage but it does not come through to the top... We are looking to drop wires from the ceiling because the stage will be in the center of a roller rink. Money is not really an issue, but getting this to happen would be out of this world for the promoter i will be working for. If all else fails I think we will put a silent generator of some sort on stage and wireless out the audio... or not have the revolving part of this run. But for future gigs and maybe even as a longterm project I would like to see this thing through to completion.
 
Having done many turntables with power in the center, the first thing you should do is to plan for that BEFORE you build the revolve. Unfortunately yours is already built, so that limits your options. Here are various methods to run power to a revolve and others have already listed several of them. I'll try to make a somewhat comprehensive list and explain them. Some various methods are:

1. Simply run an extension cord. Must be unplugged when the unit revolves and re plugged when it stops.

2. Use a small generator or battery power and inverters to provide AC if necessary. Use wireless if needed, to send or receive signals to units not on the turntable. Note, even the quietest of generators is likely to be far too noisy for any event other than a high decibel music genera, game shows and similar. You said the set up is in the center of a roller rink???? If this is for DJ music during skating sessions, noise is might not be such an issue.

3. Drop power from directly above and as close to the center as possible. Number of rotations limited by the cable bundle size and the height the cable is dropped. Must be rewound or unplugged and untwisted as needed.

Now, methods that need to be considered before the revolve is built.

4. Simple hollow shaft. make you central pivot pin out of pipe or mechanical tube at least 4" diameter or more. Mount you pivot flange bearing so there is ample room below it to run the cables under the bearing and up through the hollow pivot. All wire/cable is hidden but like #3 above, the number of turns is limited by the size of the cable bundle and how much flex/slack you can work in at the start. Of course it must be reset/rewound as needed.

5. Use a slip ring, either commercial or shop built. There are two primary kinds of Slip rings and a one-off kind. Of course the cost is determined by the number of contacts you need, the amperage needed, whether the contacts are for power or data, whether a commercial product or shop built. All three types need to be designed and engineered into the design and construction of the revolve, the first two also involve the design and construction of the central pivot. NOTE: for shop built units you need to have a commercial grade machine shop at your disposal AND you must have highly skilled electricians and craftsmen on staff AND if the design and plans are not from a commercial source, you MUST have a LICENSED Electrician approve the design. This is not a code or NEC or OSHA requirement, it is simply the only RIGHT, non Darwin Syndrome way to go about it. Experience has shown that data and signal circuits need to be constructed out of higher grade contacts and to a greater degree of precission in reguard to constant pressure, correct pressure and degree of smoothness of contact when running. All contacts MUST be kept clean and free of dust and debris.

.....A. Vertical stack. This is the most common. The contacts are are arranged in a vertical stack of bands. this can work well if you have a lot of space under your revolve or a void like a trap room below. Vertical stacks require a relatively large amount of vertical space but the diameter is relatively small, 6" to 14" for an average 3-6 circuit 30 amp unit. Data only or fewer circuits can be smaller, units that require liquid commutation as well can be larger. You can figure a minimum of 4" plus at least 3/4" per 110vax or 220vac contact. Data or signal contacts usually require less space but vary widely between manufacturers.

.....B. Pancake style. This is a flat, concentric ring style that require only 4" to 6" of vertical space to operate. The trade off is of course the diameter. While a vertical stack may be only 6" to 14" in diameter, a pancake type can easily reach 4'-0" diameter. The Largest I have built was for a 36', steel frame revolve designed for Wildwood Park For the Performing Arts in Little Rock, Ar. circa 1994, and still in use today. It was 4'-6" in diameter and required only 4.5" of vertical height. Although I used commercially built, high amperage brushes, the most expensive part was the 5'-0" x 5'-0" x1/16" thick copper plate used to manufacture the concentric rings for the circuits. There were ten 20 amp circuits, one 50 amp circuit and 3 data circuits. Each circuit required a separate neutral so there were 20 rings 3/4" wide, 2 rings 1.25" wide and 6 at .5" wide. The width includes the insulated separator between rings.

....C. Shop built wiper type slip ring. There have been several types of these outlined in the USITT Tech Expo over the years, both for revolves and for straight line wagons. If you need to find out about these, check the USITT archives or get some one with the Tech Expo publication from the appropriate year to send you a copy. IIRC, there have(has) also been a similar article(s) in the Yale Tech Briefs, If you can acquire the correct issue.
 
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I can see a number of ways to do this, only a few of which would not involve invalidating multiple UL certifications, and even fewer that I'd trust for safe long term performance.

My suggestion for a very safe way to do this would be batteries and an inverter, as someone mentioned earlier. If you need more runtime, just add more batteries, or inline an off-the-shelf UPS to let you swap them mid-show. Of course, make sure they're secured properly when in use, reports of acid burns might hurt ticket sales...


Actually, just skip the batteries, keep the UPS, and assign someone to periodically unplug and unwind the extension cord. Simple as that. All other connections can be wireless.
 
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The only other solution thats crossing my mind, in a this-would-be-really-cool-but-tricky and only work in the right circumstances... which maybe this is, would be to inset/build a counterrevolve that spun the dj equipment in the opposite direction at the same speed. This would be impractical for theater for all sorts of reasons, but based on the descriptions of the event it might be sellable as a cool theme.

Of course, the engineering and building of a second revolve on top of/inside the big one could very well be more expensive then making the contacts, unless you have a spare one lying around!
 
I like the idea of a commercially bought commutator. I can very easily get away with ten amps on stage, and for the long run this sounds most practical. Yes their will be an active skate session around the stage, but its an all night 18+ event (probably not what you were envisioning). I appreciate the help though, I've definitely been pointed in the right direction at this point. I had been searching Google for detangler adjustments for hours it seemed like, and now the commutator should make my search a heck of a lot easier :eek:) Does anyone recommend any brands?
 
If you google, use the term Slip Ring, it willl get you many more results. Also I appologise for a mental slip/error in using the term commutator, which is actually a completely different electrical assembly from a slip ring. I know the difference and just got the wrong word on my tounge last night and didn't notice the wrong word untill I read your post and it jumpped right out at me.

For your edification take a look at the wiki for slip rings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_ring
and the wiki for commutator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commutator_(electric)

Some brands or manufacturers in no particular order: Note: the first one has a nice animation of how a slip ring works on the home page. If it looks fully assembled when you get to it, click on play again to see the basic slip ring assembled.

Custom Slip Rings | United Equipment Accessories
Conductix Wampfler • Slip Ring Assemblies click on pancake ring (about 3/4 down the page) for a look at the type I built, see post #8 in this thread.
Fabricast - Detailed Product Information
<http://www.dsti.com/products/slip-rings/?utm_source=bing-yahoo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=slip%20ring&utm_campaign=us-canada>
Slip Rings - Mercotac Brushless Slip Rings
ICC International - Commutator Repair, Commutator Manufacturing, Industrial Commutators
Slip Ring Manufacturers - ByTune Electronics
 
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