ZZTop cancels show for safety reasons

Just my outside opinion here. I work with tall radio towers where many of the issues are the same. As a broadcast engineer, I am often the go between to both the riggers who build them and the structural engineers who design them. We have good riggers working on them, but they don't know as much as structural engineers (but they think they do). We have structural engineers who are absent some of the knowledge of the riggers about how things actually happen in the field (but they think they do). But, the difference is that they have a standards organization that is working together. The standards include factors like potential wind, ice, and the combination of the two. And their standards usually get adopted by state and local governments into the building code. As a result, towers are much safer now than they were a few short years ago.

As far as I know, there are few and incomplete standards for these stages. The manufacturers are designing them to work in ideal conditions, but the real world has high winds, absent or poorly placed anchor points, uneven ground, heavier speaker arrays, etc. The riggers are capable, but they don't have the knowledge they need for such complex systems. The structural engineers are well trained, but they need more real world experience with this very specialized type of structure. Riggers and engineers don't have as much background in meteorology and aerodynamics as needed to factor in those variables. To put it bluntly, the whole industry is working in a vacuum.

What it'll take is more Harry Donovan types. People who are both riggers and engineers, to "write the book" on these large, temporary structures, just as Harry did for hanging in arenas. The industry will have to create a standards organization just like the tower industry did. It will set standards for the manufacturers to build to, and rules for riggers to follow, and the standards will have to be adopted and enforced by local jurisdictions. Training to the standards will educate. The standards will continually evolve as knowledge improves and technology changes. Until this happens, more deaths will occur.

I hope I am wrong and that the industry is already proactively doing these things, but the accidents suggest otherwise.
 
Most of what you said is right on. There needs to be better standards. Right now you have building inspectors and city engineers evaluating structures they know little about. They want blue prints that mean nothing to keep people safer. I read some of the Indiana report and it concluded that these guide wire primary systems are poorly engineered. They had 10 concrete ballasts and would have needed 96 to keep the structure upright. I know some very smart riggers and some dumb engineers. Theres not an easy answer in the industry because of cost cutting to keep ticket prices as low as possible to keep shows viable. What nobody wants is politicians making the rule or most can kiss their jobs goodbye. No easy answers.
 
What nobody wants is politicians making the rule or most can kiss their jobs goodbye. No easy answers.

And I don't want to have a roof fall on me while banging on the kick pedal during line check...

Promoters won't listen to internal regulation. This industry is full of people who will undercut anyone to get a contract on a show. It is also full of people who won't say no because they want to get hired back next time. Regulation is going to be the answer. If that means that ticket prices go up a buck or two, bands take less home, or promoters take less home then so be it.
 
Promoters won't listen to internal regulation. This industry is full of people who will undercut anyone to get a contract on a show.
I disagree here, the largest promoter in the country already has their own set of standards in place that are far more strict than some proposed legislation.
When the industry giants act, the rest will follow.
 
Under US labor law, one worker is to be selected as steward (either by appointment by a Local Union officer, or by election from within the bargaining unit employees), and is responsible for ensuring that the contract's provisions are fairly and evenly enforced. Since the steward must be present during all working hours to do so, they are granted 'super seniority', putting them ahead of all other staffing considerations and making them the de facto 'first in, last out' person on a call. Due to this, and also because crew heads tend to have been around long enough to be familiar with the ins and outs of the contract, a crew head and a steward will often be the same person, but nothing in the law requires this to be the case. (takes off 'former Local Secretary' hat)

Working for a company that will be supplying a roof for a Cheap Trick concert later this summer, I've been tasked this spring with bringing our practices and recordkeeping up the levels that the band is now requiring in their rider. As part of this, I've been working with one of our local structural engineers on verifying what our roof should and should not be expected to do, and we've been learning from the process. Some of what we'd been doing all along, as we were shown by the manufacturers when the first roof was purchased, really isn't quite enough for all possible (and probable) situations. Also, the one ESTA/ANSI standard that does exist appears to have a couple of major flaws when attempting to apply it to many of the currently touring roofs and lighting/sound rigs.

I'm interested in hearing from, and sharing with, other members who are working on such projects, although the topic might be considered by the mods as being a bit too advanced for discussion in the open forum.
 
Working for a company that will be supplying a roof for a Cheap Trick concert later this summer, I've been tasked this spring with bringing our practices and recordkeeping up the levels that the band is now requiring in their rider. As part of this, I've been working with one of our local structural engineers on verifying what our roof should and should not be expected to do, and we've been learning from the process. Some of what we'd been doing all along, as we were shown by the manufacturers when the first roof was purchased, really isn't quite enough for all possible (and probable) situations. Also, the one ESTA/ANSI standard that does exist appears to have a couple of major flaws when attempting to apply it to many of the currently touring roofs and lighting/sound rigs.

I'm interested in hearing from, and sharing with, other members who are working on such projects, although the topic might be considered by the mods as being a bit too advanced for discussion in the open forum.

We recently load tested our Total Structures roof along with adding permanent guy wire attachment points.
Everything was found to be in excess of spec.
proxy.php
 
I disagree here, the largest promoter in the country already has their own set of standards in place that are far more strict than some proposed legislation.
When the industry giants act, the rest will follow.

Keep in mind, Live Nation, who I assume you are talking about... was the promoter for the Toronto show.
 
We recently load tested our Total Structures roof along with adding permanent guy wire attachment points.
Everything was found to be in excess of spec.
proxy.php

Keep in mind just because you are at manufacture spec does not mean you are safe. The roof that went down in Indiana was pretty much up to spec. Even if they would have installed it beyond spec, it still would not have held up to the wind rating that the roof carried.
 
Just for the record, this discussion isn't academic to me. We had a 40x40 roof up this weekend, and had a storm system blow through with 58 mph winds recorded at a airport a few miles away, and up to 75 mph in surrounding towns. We had 120K of lights in the air, and a line-array sound system that had been lowered to touch the ground to stop pendulum swinging. Half the skin broke its bungees and came loose. No other damage to our gear, other than gel blowing out of frames.

I'm very interested in matching notes with other roof techs.
 
Just for the record, this discussion isn't academic to me. We had a 40x40 roof up this weekend, and had a storm system blow through with 58 mph winds recorded at a airport a few miles away, and up to 75 mph in surrounding towns. We had 120K of lights in the air, and a line-array sound system that had been lowered to touch the ground to stop pendulum swinging. Half the skin broke its bungees and came loose. No other damage to our gear, other than gel blowing out of frames.

I'm very interested in matching notes with other roof techs.

Just saw what I assume to be video of that stage, scary stuff.

Single Video Player
 
... other than gel blowing out of frames.
Hate it when that happens.:( Always use double brad s when working outside.

Just saw what I assume to be video of that stage, scary stuff.
Single Video Player
The video linked to above is NOT FatherMurphy's stage, but of a stage in Dayton, Ohio at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base Friday, 06/29/12. Though no collapse or injuries, the structure was damaged enough that a crane had to be brought in to dismantle it safely. Tattoo canceled due to storm; storm damage reported . The same video is at the newspaper's site.

A photo of the aftermath: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2012/06/120629-F-NV267-004.jpg .

Another video from local TV news: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid97611361001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAFb6jxY~,bNxdfWL8PBuX-vNo4HlzLS7yBpgm_l4D&bctid=1712971700001 .
A video from Thursday, prior to the incident: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid97611361001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAFb6jxY~,bNxdfWL8PBuX-vNo4HlzLS7yBpgm_l4D&bctid=1712971700001 .
 
Last edited:
Correct, that is NOT my roof. Thanks for the video link, though. It'll go in the hopper for show-and-tell.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back