Conventional Fixtures Interesting (1)65Q failure

B

BobHealey

Active Member
So, I was relamping some 165Qs (its a 65Q with a crank focus) tonight from 500W BTL to 750W BTN. The had last been run for ~45 minute stretches at ~80% pointed up at a 45 degree angle as house lights for several rehearsals and 8 performances of Smokey Joe's Cafe.

When I opened the pair, both had the little center mirror completely discolored, and this one had it all curled up. Something I did wrong with my usage of the fixture, or just random bad luck? Anyone ever seen a failure mode like this before?

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I have never seen that failure before. I'm thinking bad luck?
I have a few of those in several inventories I work with regularly that use the 575 BTH lamp and have never had any trouble.
 
Anyone clean the reflector before now? And with what? What gel color or especially dichroic if any was in use? Lamp removed seem normal?

Had a problem years ago with cyc light reflectors as similar. Near as we cold figure, someone had cleaned the reflectors with "Goof Off" or something with a residue with heat delaminated the reflector coating. Lots of fixtures with that problem especially in the hottest center reflectors of the light, but couldn't figure it out for cause. Could have been a bad lot number of reflectors and in your case also possible, but unless you have replaced any in say the first 100 hours doubtful.
 
I've seen older 65Q's fail this way. I don't think it happens overnight. I always assumed it was due to long hours burning a BTR 1000w lamp (which the fixture isn't rated for) although the fixtures were in the "boneyard" without lamps, so I had no evidence of this. The paint was baked off/distressed around the midsection which supported my theory at the time (though this in itself isn't always a cause for concern when dealing with older fixtures).

Were they fine before, or could this have been longer in the making?
 
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ship said:
Anyone clean the reflector before now? And with what? What gel color or especially dichroic if any was in use? Lamp removed seem normal?

Had a problem years ago with cyc light reflectors as similar. Near as we cold figure, someone had cleaned the reflectors with "Goof Off" or something with a residue with heat delaminated the reflector coating. Lots of fixtures with that problem especially in the hottest center reflectors of the light, but couldn't figure it out for cause. Could have been a bad lot number of reflectors and in your case also possible, but unless you have replaced any in say the first 100 hours doubtful.
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Reflector was supposedly in good condition mid march when they were placed for the show. No gel at all. At time they were placed, the BTNs normally in there were replaced with BTLs.
 
The 65Q has most of its ventilation holes on the back. With the lens pointed upward, it would cool itself very inefficiently without natural convection. The design probably didn't allow for pointing it up at a steep angle. I have seen a few where the reflector baked that way.
 
Sounds like I owe the theater a dozen new reflector assemblies then. I haven't pulled down the other 10 units to inspect yet, but odds are good I cooked all of them too. Since its one of those volunteer, not a lot of funds community theaters, I personally feel I should donate the materials. The theater is not going to ask/make me cover costs of parts. I'm in charge of fixing the lighting system when it break so my labor is already on the table whether now or later.
 
BobHealey said:
Sounds like I owe the theater a dozen new reflector assemblies then. I haven't pulled down the other 10 units to inspect yet, but odds are good I cooked all of them too. Since its one of those volunteer, not a lot of funds community theaters, I personally feel I should donate the materials. The theater is not going to ask/make me cover costs of parts. I'm in charge of fixing the lighting system when it break so my labor is already on the table whether now or later.
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I once the stage carp/designer got thrown into doing the lights also. The heck was I to know about halogen lamps and touching the bulb - I was still in college at the time learning. Wiped out the entire inventory of Lekos available with lamps for the store front theater in one "service call" I believe back in like 93'. Cost us a year worth of what was up and running for further shows. It happens and that's what I chalcked up the reflector thing was after evident not a manufactur defect on the reflectors.

Nice of you to put out the replacement costs but I didn't with those lamps - granted I wasn't paid or an expert paid. I of course later lost a few $K with the theater company when it went under - I was invested in it more than I should have. If paid business to maintain the lights in doing so, it's at least a tax write off.

Start by having a chat with the theater management in what's theorized to be the cause of the delamination. Solve the problem first and figure out what caused it in how to do better later or adjust practice. Put later onto the table your covering the cost as responsible verses doing the job the best you could and this is the learning curve type of stuff that happens once figured out the cause.

This all assuming you didn't replace a bunch of reflectors recently. If you are paid to fix/repair lekos and this was a problem you caused... you probably did loose your pay. If you were not paid... sorry but the cost of doing business in if you choose to donate to helping fix the problem all fine and good and another tax write off as with your labor and other money's spent. If not paid and donating your time, experience, and no doubt materials to the best of your ability as I was, there is no need to feel obligated to pay for the replacement reflectors. This in part is what that theater is about in operating costs. Will hurt them in cost but overall you were a part of the governing concept of why they are they are there - to .... This in part was of it. Don't put money out unless you can afford to do so in loosing money on something you were doing for free and even if not at fault got education about which was probably part of the mission statment.
 
Out of curiosity, I took a look at the 65Q parts diagram. It notes that the two-piece reflector is no longer available. In other words, Altman had troubles with it burning up and redesigned the reflector. So, you could say that part of the problem was how the instrument was oriented, and part of it was a faulty reflector.
 
Yeah, that reflector design has been discontinued for a quite a while. I know that I have encountered hammer tone brown units with that reflector and also black-painted units with that reflector. All new units that I have encountered in for sure the last 10 years have used an all-aluminum reflector that has a diameter of about 2".
 
I've encountered dozens of 65Qs with that style of reflector all burned up. I think it can handle a 500 watter, but not a 750.
 
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