Mixers/Consoles New LS9 - Administration

[MaxS]

Well our new LS9-32 was just delivered from California up here to the Frozen Tundra, replacing a DDA CS3-32. I've used the console before in production environments, but I've never set one up for an educational space. I'm trying to do a few specific things, but I've run into some problems.



The plan is to create user keys on flash drives for specific faculty members only, so that access to the console is limited to those who can supervise its operation. However, the "Guest account" is becoming a problem. I've tried disabling all of the operations, but that results in faders being locked at -∞. I'd like to avoid this, as I can see someone trying to force them up and burning out the motors. In short, can I permanently disable the guest account, defaulting to the lock screen or something and prompting for an authentication? The user management section of the manual is a little sparse.

 

[MNicolai]

I'll be in front of my LS9 in a few hours and I'll see what the menus allow. Having had an LS9 in an educational/professional venue for the last 2 years, I've found that setting up user keys would be far more a pain in the butt than it'd be worth for us. People lose/forget/take-without-asking/misplace USB drives, especially students and overhires, making the entire process counter-productive. We've not had problems with the console being misused anyways. What we only have trouble with is people putting our rep show file back onto the console each time they're done with it.

It's another one of Yamaha's "features" that sort of is useful, but for most practical purposes is too rough to use effectively. I spoke to three Yamaha reps a couple days ago and two of the three gave me no helpful advice about my console freezing when reading a folder on a USB flash drive and the other gave me advice that didn't work. Eventually I was transferred to someone's voicemail and a few days later haven't been called back.

 

[WooferHound]

I haven't run a LS9 console but I was reading the Manuel while staying at a Holiday Inn Express one time.
Isn't there a way to LOCK the console which then requires a password to unlock it.

 

[derekleffew]

(hijack)

...the Manuel while staying at a Holiday Inn Express one time. ...

This Manuel, does he have a seester? Sorry, I had to.

(/hijack)

 

[MaxS]

I haven't run a LS9 console but I was reading the Manuel while staying at a Holiday Inn Express one time.
Isn't there a way to LOCK the console which then requires a password to unlock it.

Yes, but it ends up not working. If one locks the console as an administrator and powers down the console, upon boot it will boot to the lock screen and prompt for authentication. However, the authentication can be canceled, and it will boot into "Guest" again, which doesn't serve the intended purpose of completely locking out the console.

 

[Studio]

Is this console kept in a locked room, if so do few people have access to this room?

 

[MNicolai]

I do not see a way to disable the guest account. If you're really concerned about the security of your console, then give it a locking case or lock the room. People can do just as much damage to the console when it's off as when it's on.

I do not understand your concerns very much. If people want to log in as guest and try to use the console, let them. If they screw up the patch or cause other mayhem, then you can just reload your base show file. That's what I do and I can always guarantee the quality of mixing that /I/ do; if someone doesn't know what they're doing and their event sucks, it has no repercussions on me because I'll just load my base show file to configure the mixer how I like it.

There's something to be said for leaving your console in a room where only authorized people can access it, and if untrained people mess it up, no big deal because a quick load from a USB drive and the problem is solved. If any physical damage is inflicted (which despite popular belief, is unlikely), then the person who breaks it, buys it, or our insurance or their insurance handles it.

Again, possibly a moot point coming from a guy working with a district that has only a few students and a few overhires who know the console. No full-timers know how to use it (though the arts center manager could probably turn a couple mic's on if he needed to).

For a definitive answer on whether or not you can do what you're trying to, you can always give Yamaha a call at 1.866.211.9366. Hopefully you'll have better luck than I did with that number. If you ask nicely, maybe they'll add the ability to disable the guest account in the next firmware release. I can't imagine it's a very difficult piece of code to write, but I have no idea what kind of development, if any, they are still doing on the LS9 or if it's just bug fixes they'll work on now. They're also might be a really good reason why you can't disable that account; give them a call and let us know what happens.

 

[MaxS]

Physical security isn't necessarily a concern, as the console will either remain locked in-house in the 700-seat space during production runs, or in master storage.

It's the use of the space by various administrative and faculty members that concerns me. They have a habit of opening things up, powering systems on, and mistreating them. It becomes a concern of untrained persons blowing out speakers/amps, losing/damaging mics, etc. My logic is that if the whole system becomes inoperable, they can't and therefore won't use it, forcing them to contact someone in our department.

 

[DuckJordan]

Physical security isn't necessarily a concern, as the console will either remain locked in-house in the 700-seat space during production runs, or in master storage.

It's the use of the space by various administrative and faculty members that concerns me. They have a habit of opening things up, powering systems on, and mistreating them. It becomes a concern of untrained persons blowing out speakers/amps, losing/damaging mics, etc. My logic is that if the whole system becomes inoperable, they can't and therefore won't use it, forcing them to contact someone in our department. In a high school with 2400 students and a couple hundred staff members beside, a lot can happen. GBAPS is the largest district in the state behind Milwaukee, with a large number of staffed employees that like to wander into performance spaces and think they know what they're doing.

Last year, for example, the athletic director and several coaches planned a football banquet and awards ceremony, and administration failed to notify us that they would be using in-house equipment. So they took things into their own hands. After drafting some low-level facilities personnel to provide access, they managed to use dimmers as mains power, misplace lots of audio equipment, and walk off with some more. As much as this can/should be solved with proper communication, with the size of the building it doesn't always happen. In my opinion the more locked down things can be, both physically and technically, the better.

As much as I would love not to worry about it and have faith in the "you break it, you buy it" philosophy, the finances here are wacky at best. Budget cuts have been $6,000,000 and up every consecutive year for the last few, and there is literally no district funding available for anything. All revenue and expenditures for the music department are internal. That makes sense, you might say, but here's where some shady policy comes into effect: once anything has been purchased with intent to be used permanently in district facilities, it instantly becomes the sole property of the district. They literally reserve the right to take our new console and ship it to another building tomorrow. In fact, they won't even let us sell the equipment we replaced for a small bit of ROI. Essentially, they claim ownership of everything, mistreat it, then refuse to maintain it or pay for damages. It's ridiculous.

The biggest problem i see with this is, If they turn it on and it doesnt work right, they will spend a ton of time trying to get it to work and most likely not just not use it, but rather attempt to use it and destroy it. In my old HS it was the same problem. We would tell them let us know if you need something to work, we will gladly come out and do it for you. That never happens, so they took it upon their own to try and use our Soundcraft LX7 and ended up blowing out part of our main cluster since they did turned on the system wrong. They turned the amps on before anything else, the LS9 sent a pop through the system and blew out the mid's of our center cluster. Granted something else helped cause the break but it wouldn't have happened had it been done properly.

Basicly if you don't want them to use it Unplug it/Hide the power cables and anything else that might be able to be used to power it. if its really that big of a concern let the district know how much it costs and why someone trained to use it should be the only person touching the console.

It seems to me from your posts that you are not a faculty member. If I am wrong correct me but I would bet that an administration who sees the receipt of the console, and then taught that without the console the PA system is pretty much useless (although not quite true) they will most likely agree to have a trained person do the console operation.

 

[MaxS]

I would bet that an administration who sees the receipt of the console, and then taught that without the console the PA system is pretty much useless (although not quite true) they will most likely agree to have a trained person do the console operation.

It isn't the principle that's the problem, it's the enforcement. In fact, administration is often the source of the problem.

As stated, with the exception of striking the console to master storage every night, there really isn't any perfect solution to risk management. As it stands, doing nothing other than a "don't touch it" policy to prevent systems operation has resulted in damage. You say yourself,

In my old HS it was the same problem. We would tell them let us know if you need something to work, we will gladly come out and do it for you. That never happens, so they took it upon their own to try and use our Soundcraft LX7 and ended up blowing out part of our main cluster since they did turned on the system wrong.

Despite continuing efforts to restrict unsupervised access, things have been unsuccessful so far. With the digital board tools are available for user authentication, and it would be foolish not to attempt to implement them.

Basicly if you don't want them to use it Unplug it/Hide the power cables and anything else that might be able to be used to power it.

Exactly. If they can't turn on the system, they can't operate it. Being locked out from boot accomplishes this. This is the same philosophy behind enterprise-level network workstations. Authentication is requisite to the function of the device.

 

[MNicolai]

Sounds like you have a gushing flesh wound. You can put a band aid on it or maybe even a gauze pad, but in the end it's still a gushing flesh wound.

Now when you say, "Technical Theatre and Facilities Consultant," what exactly do you mean? Is this a full-time position where you might actually have bargaining power or are you the thorn in someone else's side whose trying to do something nice in their spare time?

If you work in a place where anyone can walk into the place, pick up your gear and leave with it, you've got a lot more problems going on than just setting a password on your sound console. Policies and conventions be darned -- that wouldn't fly in most places and your district should understand that for you to effectively do your job, people should not be able to do that. And it is foolish to attempt to implement it in that regard, because it's one thing if someone turns it on in your facility and can't really do anything with it. People like that don't try a whole lot before giving up. When people have put time into taking the console from one end of the building to another, or to a different building in the district, they'll turn that on, find it doesn't work, and they'll break it just trying to get it work, whether those faders are locked or loose.

Facilities with leaks that huge just shouldn't get nice things. Your IT dept. is able to effectively work with enterprise-level networking because each workstation only costs a few hundred bucks and provides a front-end into something they've already locked down in a hundred different ways. With policy restrictions, firewalls, user authentication, content blockers, email/spam filters, and every other tool under the sun, they've put up their roadblocks to keep end-user experience and system stability relatively decent. Distributing USB drives isn't how you effectively supply that same level of end-user experience and system stability, with lighting and audio gear, those things are maintained by restricting access to equipment to people who are competent, not allowing everyone to use a 700-person auditorium for a 25-person meeting, and keeping equipment out the hands of people who only know enough to be dangerous.

I keep things simple with my district; if there are situations where things are not ideal for whatever the reason, I point out why they aren't ideal and what that means to the quality of the events. I also make certain they're aware that there are cases where I can't guarantee much, if any quality for something, as a direct result of an existing circumstance. If you want faculty members to be able to walk out of here at any time with my wireless mic's, understand they're may not be wireless mic's in here for the next big district event that wants to use them, or that if they're are, many of them may be broken.

Congrats if you find something useful from Yamaha, but at the end of the stay there's still blood running down your back and dripping onto the floor and there will continue to be until you get that gushing flesh room sewn up at a hospital.

 

[WooferHound]

I can't remember if the Guest User has it's on patch and setup or not, but could you create a Stupid Patch that essentially disables the console and creates a setup that can't possibly be used to do anything. Then load that Stupid Patch whenever you shut the console down.

 

[Studio]

I agree that this would be a band-aid on a much larger problem.

To start off Label anything worth more than ~$20 Wireless Mics like to walk off especially if they look like the one the Athletics department lost. We put a big AV in white paint pen on all of our equipment.

A locking case for the LS9-32 might be a good idea, so no physical damage such as defacing by students can be done, and no one without the key will be able to even touch the board.

I don't know if your school has an equipment storage room, or something similar such as a cage. My school has a room in our AV Computer Lab/Studio (in our library) Only two people can check out equipment the AV Secretary and the AV Director, this is because there is a special key to this space that only about 4 people have. Everything is checked out to a person and is set up by Student AV aides, the AV Secretary, or the AV Director. This way equiptment can be checked in and out, and has less tendency to walk off.

Another Idea is to have a talk with the person scheduling events about having people list what is needed in the room. We have a form that is filled out by everyone using the space with the times, dates, equipment, and a rough sketch of tables/chairs that need setting up.

This is a much bigger problem than a password on the LS9-32.

 

[MNicolai]

Only two people can check out equipment the AV Secretary and the AV Director, this is because there is a special key to this space that only about 4 people have. Everything is checked out to a person and is set up by Student AV aides, the AV Secretary, or the AV Director. This way equiptment can be checked in and out, and has less tendency to walk off.

Another Idea is to have a talk with the person scheduling events about having people list what is needed in the room. We have a form that is filled out by everyone using the space with the times, dates, equipment, and a rough sketch of tables/chairs that need setting up.

While not terrible ideas, it's definitely easier said than done. From the sound of it, people aside from MaxS do not recognize there is a problem, nor will they see any reason that they should need to take time out of their precious schedules to navigate the bureaucracies of filling out paperwork or asking permission. Asking permission means they might end up being turned down, or that they may be allowed to check out equipment, but only if they pay a fee to have someone ride along and supervise or operate it. Should they get permission, now there is a system in place that holds them accountable if things are damaged, but on the other hand if nobody knows they've got the gear, then no one can ask them to fork over some dough when something becomes broken. For many of the users, they'll think it's in their better interest to take gear as they please, regardless of policies or strong advisements.

If people can just take stuff, they will just take stuff. You need some pretty high people on the food chain to understand the problem before you can implement a solution. In the district I work with, the moment the arts center was opened and a full-time manager was brought on staff, he said either he reported only to the superintendent's office or he wouldn't take the job. One way or another, he wasn't going to let himself be the errand boy for all of the events in the district, and at the mercy of music departments demanding to be on stage every day for rehearsals with other schools taking every spare day for their own events that could just as easily be put on at their own schools.

And it was so. He's got the authority, reports only to the superintendent's office, and if he tells someone, a principal, faculty member, or student, that they are not allowed to do something, they either have to change his mind or take their grievance directly to the superintendent, who is smart enough to defer it back to him anyways. It sounds cutthroat, but in practice, important meetings happen when they need to to ensure everyone is getting the time they need in the spaces, with the equipment they need, and with the understandings that there are resources and time are finite, and there's someone around at all times who has full right to hold them accountable for any problems they may create.

Convincing a school district that they need to hire a new full-time Equipment Coordinator or some other kind of position like that for tens of thousands of dollars a year is a hard sell for a district that thinks they're getting by just fine.