BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
I wondered if 4-6 clip lights with smart bulbs and an I-Phone wouldn't be a simple and safe approach.
The OP does not seem to have electrical experience. Cobbling together residential electrical components for use in a commercial situation (see earlier email RE a wooden structure filled with children) is foolish. There are many ways to assemble electrical components such that they appear to work, but have created a very significant danger - either a fire or shock hazard, or both.
I again disagree - using listed products for their listed purpose is measurably safer than putting together home-made junk. The entire point of the listing process is to evaluate all the ways a device can fail or be misused by the end users, and the device must be able to handle these without creating a life safety issue. It's not even close to the same thing.Now Now, we all know the same can be done with commercial dimming equipment as well. Just because you buy some 'professional' dimming and control equipment doesn't make it any safer if its not properly used.
I don't disagree with anyone but with the proper knowledge and experience I put it out there as an option.
And then there's the cost of your liability insurance for when the families of the departed sue.The OP does not seem to have electrical experience. Cobbling together residential electrical components for use in a commercial situation (see earlier email RE a wooden structure filled with children) is foolish. There are many ways to assemble electrical components such that they appear to work, but have created a very significant danger - either a fire or shock hazard, or both.
It's one thing to do an electrical project at home and use an Arduino to control your Christmas lights; it's quite another to suggest on a professional forum that folks go out and essentially buy whatever junk that is conductive and fits together, and then get Uncle Larry to help wire it up.
Guys - I get it - money doesn't grow on trees, but basic DMX dimmers and boards are SO cheap. By the time you collect all the components to do it in an uncertified (and probably unsafe at some level) way, it's not much cheaper if at all, than buying commercial products.
Possibly you could provide a link to one of your "digitally controlled variac type thing"s.If you're not looking to spend a fortune (or even much money at all) you've still got some options.
One possibility is to use a couple "light switch dimmers", (something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BOA23U/?tag=controlbooth-20 ), and wire them to outlets that are clearly marked "dimmable lights only". Certainly easy enough to set up, and it still stays relatively cheap. One suggestion for this is to not use power strips on the dimmed power line, as the strips might flip off as a protection feature- just use nice splitters (usually in the form of extension cables). You might not want to have one dimmer for each light, but perhaps do it in groups (IE have a "presenter" group, a "band" group, and an "acting" group), the only issue is that you can't have the same light on different groups (or else strange things happen- plan carefully).
The bonus with the "light switch dimmer" option is that it's essentially putting the electrical stuff in that you'd need if you were to upgrade to an actual dimmer rack and lighting console.
EDIT: @seanandkate , you raise a good point about power draw. Perhaps see about having an Arduino control some heavy duty digitally controlled variac type thing. At this point, it seems more feasible to just get a small dimmer rack and hook it up to a computer running Freestyler or something.
C) Ignore what I said before to appease the pros .
Aaron - I'm not trying to pick on you, but for the OP's purpose, it's really no more complicated than buying a couple portable dimmer packs and a basic light board. Total cost should be less than $400 new, probably less via Craigslist since everyone is dumping dimming in favor of LED. Any permanent electrical work will cost more than this, and a permanently installed dimmer rack is not feasible nor required considering the OP is bringing in portable lighting trees. The only question is what is the wattage of the par cans the OP has, and choosing dimmers with adequate capacity, or alternatively lamping them down so they work with inexpensive packs. Any fixture 500w or less will be fine, and considering the current use of power strips, I highly doubt the lights in question are more than this.Back to the OP's questions.
Options-
A) What TJ talks about. You still have to figure how much power you need to feed each dimmer pack, how much you can run on it and where it comes from.
B) If that's not within your budget and your venue is in a building or fixed structure with electrical available there. Get a licensed electrician to run outlets near where you want lights to be. Have him wire for 20amp circuits (12g) . For now those runs can be on dimmers and the circuit breaker sized accordingly. Then when there is money for dimmers packs and a board or other control options an electrician just needs to remove the dimmers and swap the breakers to 20 amp and you now have power right where your dimmer pack is. If you can find a volunteer electrician or even one that would donate materials, this can be rather inexpensive. He could even wire everything to be powered from a generator disconnect if power is not on site.
C) Ignore what I said before to appease the pros .
And, unless I've missed it, no one has brought up de-rating of household dimmers when mounted adjacent to one another in multi-gang boxes. I believe the typical 600 Watt household dimmers require de-rating when mounted in pairs, triples, quads and more. And then there're code requirements for type S, and heavier service, cables. I'm still cringing at someone posting advising the use of nylon jacketed, solid conductor, wiring for theatrical applications. One of our posters toots his horn like he actually knows what he's talking about and I worry some poor innocent is going to believe him. I've found I learn best with my ears open and my mouth closed. I'd suggest this to some of our posters but I'm afraid I'd be wasting my breath as their mouths are too busy flapping too loudly.Aaron - I'm not trying to pick on you, but for the OP's purpose, it's really no more complicated than buying a couple portable dimmer packs and a basic light board. Total cost should be less than $400 new, probably less via Craigslist since everyone is dumping dimming in favor of LED. Any permanent electrical work will cost more than this, and a permanently installed dimmer rack is not feasible nor required considering the OP is bringing in portable lighting trees. The only question is what is the wattage of the par cans the OP has, and choosing dimmers with adequate capacity, or alternatively lamping them down so they work with inexpensive packs. Any fixture 500w or less will be fine, and considering the current use of power strips, I highly doubt the lights in question are more than this.
Edit - this is the perfect situation for an older Microplex system. These are worth practically nothing, and good quality equipment was made by NSI/Leviton and Leprecon. If the OP can find an old NSI 7000-series light board and MPX packs, they would have a very solid system virtually for free.
I sold a Leprecon LP624 lighting board and 4 6-channel MPX packs for $600 earlier this year as a datapoint. Maybe someone on the forum here has something in the closet they would be willing to let go of?
Aaron - I'm not trying to pick on you, but for the OP's purpose, it's really no more complicated than buying a couple portable dimmer packs and a basic light board. Total cost should be less than $400 new, probably less via Craigslist since everyone is dumping dimming in favor of LED. Any permanent electrical work will cost more than this, and a permanently installed dimmer rack is not feasible nor required considering the OP is bringing in portable lighting trees. The only question is what is the wattage of the par cans the OP has, and choosing dimmers with adequate capacity, or alternatively lamping them down so they work with inexpensive packs. Any fixture 500w or less will be fine, and considering the current use of power strips, I highly doubt the lights in question are more than this.
Edit - this is the perfect situation for an older Microplex system. These are worth practically nothing, and good quality equipment was made by NSI/Leviton and Leprecon. If the OP can find an old NSI 7000-series light board and MPX packs, they would have a very solid system virtually for free.
I sold a Leprecon LP624 lighting board and 4 6-channel MPX packs for $600 earlier this year as a datapoint. Maybe someone on the forum here has something in the closet they would be willing to let go of?
That was one of my "bad morning ideas" right there. Pardon me on that.Mr Nasty, this is awful advice. It is absolutely not acceptable using NM/Romex/THHN/whatever is cheap that has wires in it for portable cable use. It's unsafe, very illegal, and probably not cheaper than doing it the right way.
Your signature line says "electrical engineer", but other posts you have made suggest you are a high school student. Which is it? I find it very hard to believe an actual electrical engineer would make the above recommendation.
Something like this: http://variac.com/staco_variable_transformer_1000_1200.htmPossibly you could provide a link to one of your "digitally controlled variac type thing"s.
Words to live by.Be safe.
As of right now you're neither, so if it were me, I would change or remove your occupation. 4 years from now when you've earned it, you can put it back.There's a difference between an EE and a licensed Electrician.
Oddly enough, I think I put it there the first semester of this year, so there's been a lot of rising actions in this plot line leading up to the most suspenseful part of this story. Anyways, I've removed it. Didn't realize that there were two "Occupation" fields.As of right now you're neither, so if it were me, I would change or remove your occupation. 4 years from now when you've earned it, you can put it back.
The final semester of high school is typically the peak of self-confidence. Enjoy it while it lasts, then get ready for multiple decades of realizing you know less than you think you know.
Not in any way that is important. Self-confidence, hair, and physical attractiveness possibly. Value to the universe- definitely not.Crap! I'm peaking!
Care to explain how your example is "digitally controlled" or "servo"?That was one of my "bad morning ideas" right there. Pardon me on that.
You're correct about my signature (well, my description says that, not my sig) and my other posts. To clarify- I'm currently graduating high school, and will be entering Penn State this fall to study electrical engineering, and I have quite a bit of background knowledge of electricity and circuitry.
Note how I don't say electrician. I know the basic wiring stuff when it comes to your 120/240v grid work, but I am by no means educated on the formalities of electrical code. There's a difference between an EE and a licensed Electrician.
Something like this: http://variac.com/staco_variable_transformer_1000_1200.htm
But at this point it's literally just reinventing the dimmer, specifically the old school servo dimmers.
Words to live by.
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