Small Line Array Rigging - Safe and Simple

[tk2k]

New Part 1:
Hey all,


I've got ~15k to spend on new mains that have to serve a dual purpose.
The first performance venue is a 40x90x15h space, which is best described as a dance studio that a stage was brought into. The room was never intended for live audio, but it's what we've got. The holdover system is 2x C215v's and one QSC K series sub, meaning pretty much anything will be an upgrade.


The second space is outdoors, 100x200 'quad' with buildings on three sides, used for outdoor concerts. Here I do not have to hit the 100db at mix position, but sound should still feel full.


I was thinking the QSC KLA line array system would be a good choice, and I've discussed rigging below, just wanted to see if there's other solutions I should consider


Original Section:


Hello,

I'm at a small liberal arts college and we are going about upgrading our sound systems. We're pretty happy with the QSC KLA line array system, but there's one small piece left, rigging.

We have two main spaces, the first is an indoor 40x90 performance space with a grid hung at 12ft (very low unfortunately) and a cement ceiling above at 15'. The line array will consist of two sub boxes and 3 mid-high units, and the idea is to install a simple rigging system to allow us to ground-load the array, and then fly it up to its final height at 12ft. The actual loading process is painfully easy on the KLA system, and if it was just a question of load calculations on a cable that'd be no problem, but since we want the system to fly it is beyond me.

I'd like to be able to ground-load and then raise up. We have sufficient power for electric motors, and considering we only need to lift 375lbs (55*3+104*2) it doesn't seem like a bad option. Thoughts?

The second is an outdoor venue, level, concrete base. Same sound units, but this time we need a freestanding solution. Stage is only 3' high so it doesn't need to fly that high, but safety is high priority for us, as is simplicity of setup and use. I want to stress while we will have people trained on how to use this, we do not have a professional rigger.

Does this seem doable?

 

[rsmentele]

We have one of the QSC arrays in house here as well, while they are not terribly heavy, you will want to properly calculate your loads. One piece of advice would be to order the frame to rig it. It makes things a TON easier, and leaves you with a single point that needs adjusting to adjust the angle.

Here is a link to the rigging piece QSC KLA AF12 RESTOCK 01 KLA Series Array Frame | Full Compass


PM me if you have any specific questions. I am pretty familiar with these unit, we have around 18 tops and 6 bottoms in house

 

[Footer]

Any rigging company will be able to come in and put in the motors you need in the indoor space. I would suggest going "motor up" just to be a bit cleaner. Because you are going into concrete you really need to get a good rigging company out there.

If you are going to have the expense of putting in the points and all that fun stuff I would also have a acoustics person come and and tell you the best place to put them. You won't want to spend 10k on motors and labor only to have something that is not going to work.

For the freestanding solution for the outdoor venue, something like this: LA12-25 Line Array Tower Applied Electronics

 

[derekleffew]

...We have two main spaces, the first is an indoor 40x90 performance space with a grid hung at 12ft (very low unfortunately) and a cement ceiling above at 15'. ...
The second is an outdoor venue, level, concrete base. ...

I'm confused; is the intent to use the same speakers both indoors and out? How often is the indoor system going to be moving? Can you afford the vertical distance electric chain hoists will consume? For the outdoor, and possibly both, I'd consider the Genie Super Tower or similar material lift. Or a purpose made truss product: Tyler Delay Tower or other truss delay tower images .

 

[tk2k]

Well we have an in-house facility services that could do the labor for free no problem. The indoor outdoor system will probably be moved quite often, as we have indoor shows during the week and outdoor shows on the weekends fall and spring. Winter will be fully indoors.

I've seen scaffolding systems instead that just sit atop a ground-mounted unit, would any of those be a possibility?

 

[derekleffew]

...I've seen scaffolding systems instead that just sit atop a ground-mounted unit, would any of those be a possibility?

You mean like this?
View attachment 6930
Aluminium Scaffold Speakers Tower Model, Chennai, India - Offer-ID:2587644846 (All my image searches are turning up India or China vendors.) Sure it's possible, but care must be taken to specify a beam or horizontal truss that can handle the center point load, as well as the attachment to the scaffold. All of which are outside the realm of an Internet forum.

 

[tk2k]

So long story short this is not as do-able as I thought it would be... back to point source.

 

[tk2k]

Sound System Recommendations

Hey all,

I've got ~15k to spend on new mains that have to serve a dual purpose.
The first performance venue is a 40x90x15h space, which is best described as a dance studio that a stage was brought into. The room was never intended for live audio, but it's what we've got. The holdover system is 2x C215v's and one QSC K series sub, meaning pretty much anything will be an upgrade.

The second space is outdoors, 100x200 'quad' with buildings on three sides, used for outdoor concerts. Here I do not have to hit the 100db at mix position, but sound should still feel full.

I was thinking the QSC KLA line array system would be a good choice, but I can't figure out safe rigging that isn't the same cost of the system, or can be operated by trained college students. So I'm looking for other solutions now.

The majority of our music is 'standard college rock' but we get a good number of electronic music artists and 'indi' bands, so good lows will be required.

Thanks

 

[avkid]

Re: Sound System Recommendations

Sorry, but you're over complicating this, inside at least.

Have a mechanical contractor put in your fly points and buy two manual chain falls.
You'll either need chain containers or steel cable to dead hang once they are flown.

 

[BillESC]

Re: Sound System Recommendations

I'll second the Genie Lift suggestion and use it both indoor and out. Otherwise your 15K audio budget becomes around a 7 or 8K budget.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Well we have an in-house facility services that could do the labor for free no problem. The indoor outdoor system will probably be moved quite often, as we have indoor shows during the week and outdoor shows on the weekends fall and spring. Winter will be fully indoors.

I've seen scaffolding systems instead that just sit atop a ground-mounted unit, would any of those be a possibility?

Unless you trust your in house facilities services to do theatrical grade install and rigging with the properly rated components, I would highly suggest NOt using them and get a qualified installer.

In high school, when I was younger and dumb(er), I asked facilities to dead hang a section of batten for me in our multipurpose space. Being 16 and thinking, "hey, they're facilities, of COURSE they know how to do it" was foolish. The batten ended up being hung from undersized GAC, with malleable crosby clips installed both ways, no thimbles, from strap style plumbing hangers.

No saying your in house facilities can't do it right, just saying, make sure you are very clear on what needs to be done and how.

 

[tk2k]

Unless you trust your in house facilities services to do theatrical grade install and rigging with the properly rated components, I would highly suggest NOt using them and get a qualified installer.

In high school, when I was younger and dumb(er), I asked facilities to dead hang a section of batten for me in our multipurpose space. Being 16 and thinking, "hey, they're facilities, of COURSE they know how to do it" was foolish. The batten ended up being hung from undersized GAC, with malleable crosby clips installed both ways, no thimbles, from strap style plumbing hangers.

No saying your in house facilities can't do it right, just saying, make sure you are very clear on what needs to be done and how.

Will do, they have done work for us before and I've been very satisfied (even hung a separate hardpoint for a safety I didn't ask for).

In terms of outdoor I've contacted our local and they're putting me in touch with one of their riggers who also owns a welding shop, so hopefully that will fruit me something useable for outdoor hanging.

 

[drummerboi316]

I'll third the Genie Super Tower idea. At one of the production companies I work at, we have Renkus Heinz line arrays and to fly them for smaller outdoor events (when we don't put up our large scale stage) we just stick the Renkus frame in the top of the top speaker and shackle/spanset it to the forks of the Super Tower. Works every time, is simple, and stable.

 

[remdim]

Hi All,

I'm in a bit of the same boat; looking at getting a few KLA's up in the air but in a school gym. The hoists would be professionally installed; I would then be able to simply roll in a case with the KLA's inside, attach my mount to the electric hoist, and have them flown for the event. Does anyone have any electric hoist recommendations for this application? I'm not looking at any more than 500lb's of load per winch.

Thanks!

 

[soundman]

CM is very popular. One of the configurations for their prostar motor is 500 LBS at 16 FPM It is a very small motor and can be configured to run off 110V. If you are lifting a little more you can get it revved to lift 1000 LBS at 8 FPM.

 

[derekleffew]

The exact hoist to which soundman is referring, in a used item listing: Prostar 1/4 Ton Motor Single Phase . Note that these have 60' of chain, which is a significant portion of the cost/value. remdim, are you looking to rent or purchase? It kind of sounds like you want them installed "motor up" permanently?

 

[museav]

A couple of related observations...

The KLA are a constant curvature array, the number of elements directly affects the overall array vertical coverage but there is no aiming of the array coverage other than physical aiming of the overall array. Since getting the appropriate coverage from the arrays in each application will be dependent on the location and aiming of the arrays, if you plan on moving the arrays often you might want to consider how any rigging can readily provide the proper location and aiming every time the array is flown.

The KLA is powered and if it will be in place longer than a month or so it will probably be considered as being a permanent install, thus the related power and signal provisions might need to be approached as though it was a permanent installation, e.g. no plug strips, extension cords, etc. Similar for any installed chain hoists or powered lifts.