"Suicide Cable"

[Pie4Weebl]

I certainly agree with your first paragraph. But I'm not sure what kind of rack would have a female inlet. I'm sure you know something that I don't, so please explain, but it sounds like you have a rack that has the wrong inlet connector on it.

It's one of our Audio PD's, the 3-phase out connector which we use to energize it in the shop is normally the output for a motor controller. The rack is usually powered via cams.

I believe someone may have made a cam-three phase to avoid this, but I don't keep too much track of what the noise boys are doing.

 

[bishopthomas]

one way to make this slightly safer is to have a special spot to do such things meaing you have a male in the wall behind a lockable plate and just use a regular extention cable, i put one in my house next to our breaker box which is located in my garage. its a twist lock 220v connector which is more power than i would ever pump into my house for this purpose (feel the better equipment you put in the house makes it more safe for everyone) but it does have a main switch in my breaker box for power feed. so its the safest you can get and you don't have a suicide cord hanging around for kids or helpful neighbors to plug in.

See, I have a problem with the "Code Quoting" folks, but I also have a problem with those who are just doing things wrong. Why would you put a female connector when you could just as easily installed a male. The male would make it safe and you wouldn't have to build some crazy single-purpose cable that could potentially be lethal. Safety aside, cables should have a male and a female, males point to the power source. It's just the way it's done and I see no reason to change that.

 

[bishopthomas]

It's one of our Audio PD's, the 3-phase out connector which we use to energize it in the shop is normally the output for a motor controller. The rack is usually powered via cams.

I believe someone may have made a cam-three phase to avoid this, but I don't keep too much track of what the noise boys are doing.

So I don't understand why you wouldn't have a cable with cams on it if it's usually powered by cams anyway. Whatever your power source is in the shop, just have an adapter to go from that to whatever is on the other end of your Camlok cable. Trust me, I've been a part of some insane power ideas, but if it's something you're using often I don't understand why you wouldn't just do it the right way.

 

[Dionysus]

I've seen a number of 'suicide cables' or 'gay widow-makers' or whatever you wish to call them. There is a reason why they get called such ominous names. I take this kind of hazard very seriously. I don't care where I see one, etc. I consider myself 'a competent person' when it comes to electrical, thus I am responsible. When I see a cable like this I DESTROY IT.
I pull out my linesman's pliers, and cut the offending male end right off (after checking to see that it is disconnected, of course).

I have done this once during a music festival. The people from the company nearly tore my head off, at which point I told them that if not I'd call the electrical inspector for the area (whom I know very well) and have him shut them down. Hell one call to Hydro and the nearest truck will come and shut off the mains.
Of course they did not take that kindly, but I was not under their employ. I was actually there by the owners of the park. I was there to tie in electrical and fix some things.

I was very kind to them and offered to go get the appropriate ends from my truck and install them for the cost of the materials (my time was paid for anyways). They cooled down at that point.

After seeing the aftermath of someone dieing from such a device. I will always take it upon myself to prevent that from happening again.

 

[jstroming]

You cut off the end of their cable without asking them (or telling them) first? That was real nice of you!

 

[bishopthomas]

When I see a cable like this I DESTROY IT.
I pull out my linesman's pliers, and cut the offending male end right off (after checking to see that it is disconnected, of course).

I have done this once during a music festival.

That's very Robin Hood of you, but you cut my cable without asking and you WILL be facing legal prosecution.

 

[GageStryker]

Is it this hard to get someone to stand up for Dionysus?

He's doing the right thing. I'd do exactly the same. And go ahead and sue. It won't even get to the judge. It's a matter of liability and jurisdiction.

I'll share a similar story, not electrical related, that happened at my venue. We have a policy on fall arrest. If you're in a lift above 10 feet, you're in a harness, tied in to the approved anchor point. Period. This complies with the provincial and federal mandates, and besides that, it's house policy.

We had a contractor come in to do some service on our projectors. In a lift. He decided he was too much of a man to wear a harness. I asked him politely to put one one (we have them available for such occasions). He refused. He wasn't up to 10 feet yet, so I stopped the lift, took the key, and went to get a harness. His swearing followed me all the way out of the room. I returned with a harness and explained that he had two options. Either he put the harness on and proceeded safely, or I'd lower him down, and he could leave, and I'd phone his boss and let him know to send another tech.

He put on the harness, and under my supervision, did his maintenance and got the hell out of there. Upon informing his boss, it turns out that this wasn't the first incident, and he's now not going out of the shop.

There are two kinds of people. Those who strive to follow the rules to the best of their ability, and those who think they're outside the rules. If you follow the rules, you can work on a team. If you don't, you put everyone else at risk, and you're better off not on a team at all.

Would you be furious if you unwrapped your shiny new console and found that the manufacturer made all the plugs male, just to save on cost? And that's just industry standard conventions, where life and limb aren't in dire risk. That manufacturer wouldn't be making anything for a long time due to the uproar.

If you need a custom solution, then make it. If you don't know how or if it meets code, ASK. Codes are there for a reason. Just because you don't know or care about the reason doesn't mean it isn't a good one.

Back to liability and jurisdiction. Dio, as the licensed electrician onsite, has the professional obligation to shut down anything he feels is unsafe. That's what he's paid for. He wants to be on your team, and 99.9% of the time, he gets to be. It's just because he's a nice guy that he offered to fix the problem in addition.

Guess what... guys tour all the time. Safely. With rated truss and points, correct electrical tie in procedures and equipment, and policies and procedures designed to make everything safer and more efficient. If you have to bend the rules to make your tour work, then maybe you're not smart enough to follow them, or maybe you're just plain lazy.

If that's the case, then please, just leave. There are enough of us that want to do the job right to take your place.

And if you want an answer to why I'm so anal about this? Easy. My boss put a ladder up and was in a hurry. Working alone. Didn't check the footing. Went up and found it wasn't stable. Fell 20 feet, shattered both ankles and ended up in the hospital. Just barely missed his skull landing on fixed seating and taking a trip in a hearse. I visited him for three months in the hospital. He's a great guy. I know his family. And I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that on my watch, no one has to phone a wife or kids and say "sorry - it was just a stupid accident."

 

[Footer]

Lets get back on topic guys. This is not a thread to discuss the bad things people do in a theatre. This is a thread to discuss the use of a male to male edison cable used for backup power in a home, not in a theatre.

 

[venuetech]

Any way you look at it it is still very dangerous. Without a Isolation transfer switch you can energize the power line endangering the safety of utility repair crews.
if you have a generator you intend to use during an outage then get a NEC transfer switch.

will it work in a pinch?...yesssss Buttt... MAKE DAMM SURE YOU ARE ISOLATED FROM THE GRID then destroy the cable when done and get a transfer switch installed as soon as you can

the biggest problem is that someone (a friend, a child) attempts to do what you did and does not take all the necessary steps to isolate from the grid.
danger to you
danger to others
a danger to great to take

 

[jstroming]

You would REALLY immediately cut the end off the cable? Not coil it up, then tell them the cable won't fly, and either stick it in their cable trunk or tell them that you'll replace the connector? What at all are you gaining by immediately cutting the end off the cable that wouldn't be accomplished by bringing it to their attention first? If I were crew-chief on that show I would use my in with the producer to write a nice letter to the venue management explaining to them that a little professional courtesy on your part would have gone a long way. Doesn't anybody else agree with this?!?

From a legal perspective I don't think you have justifiable cause to destroy someone's property even if you are licensed, but this is an interesting discussion. My lawyer friend I just called (because I was curious!) told me a licensed electrician, or for that matter any public official, police officer, building inspector who you may decide to call in your bout of rage, etc CANNOT destroy private property without a justice-backed court-order or justifiable cause that it may imminently cause bodily harm. In this case, he says, it doesn't because the cable isn't yet plugged in. He equated it to having all the parts to a defective car but just leaving them piled up in your garage. I just spoke to my friend and this is what he told me....he said if I go through your venue make sure I bring that cable in and then he'll represent me for free for negligent property destruction HAHA.

 

[jstroming]

Reminds me of what one of my professors used to say "If your baking a cake and forget the ingredients, consult a lawyer!"

 

[Morpheus]

Well, i voted "Yes, but the cable must be immediately destroyed."

My reason is that (in the context of the OP, which Footer keeps reminding us) this sort of cable should be used in temporary emergencies, where wiring a proper power in is impractical (such as running power to a neighbors home is an example, although I was thinking more smaller-scale)... HOWEVER, if you'd be doing it more than once (i.e. personal generator) that totally justifies the installation of proper equipment...


(this is just me and my $.02 of common sense though)

 

[Grog12]

While I certainly understand the use for emergency power in homes, above and beyond that I'm not a fan of.

Let me tell ya why.

My other lifestyle as I like to call it is Retail Hardware. Every Xmas I get a customer who ran their lights the wrong way up their tree and think that its perfectly safe to get a male to male connector.

Hopefully everyone on this forum knows why that's a bad idea. The general populace is usually dumbstruck when you tell them that's a pretty good way to burn their house down.

 

[Dionysus]

Slightly off topic, but to address the comments:

For the record I DID talk to them before cutting the end off (and contact my boss before as well), just did not tell all parts of the story in my earlier telling to keep it somewhat concise. And I don't consider removing one end of a cable to be 'destruction of property' when I had the replacement parts on hand and immediately remedied the situation. It's not like I chopped the cable in half.

And yes I do believe that in a situation the end should be removed! When you don't do such someone could accidentally grab that cable and plug it in, and touch the live end! That's exactly why it's against code!

I told them either I remove the end, or they get no power at all. Simple as that, in the end since I noticed the error I could be (among others) at fault if anything happened. I would be in trouble, the venue, the owner of the gear, the guys working with the gear, all potentially in big trouble (only if the worst happened).

I've seen what commonly happens when a cable like that is shoved back into a cable trunk. It gets ignored quite commonly. And plus, they DID need to use that piece of gear. Either it was getting fixed or no show.

They were not pissy that I took the end off, they were angry that I the 'electrician' was telling them that it was not appropriate and dangerous. "What do you know, you're an electrician!"... Of course I am not just an electrician, but they did not know that. I think I may of just been more experienced in lighting and sound than some of them were (they were not very professional).

If they were to press charges I would of gladly let it happen (and get the ESA involved), yes, I altered their cable... But there is a reason why I was there in the first place. I was hired to make sure that everything electrical was done to code, safely. I tied in their distribution. I also had a permit, in the electrical company's name making us liable.

I am not allowed to power a system that I deem unsafe. The only reason why I gave that story was an example to how serious something like this is.
We are talking life and death. It's just too dangerous.

NOW BACK ON TOPIC OF THE O.P.!:

As I mentioned before, been called to houses where people have attempted this. One actually caused the house to nearly burn down, another a guy electrocuted himself (on a farm). Not fun.
Bad Idea. Please follow the Codes, they're there for a reason! For your safety, and the safety of the property!

$20 part for a 5-15P edison inlet.

There are a tonne of products for hooking generator power to your house. If you'd like some different options other than the ones I gave in my earlier post, or the ones some of the others had posted earlier. Please contact a local electrician or electrical supplier.
There is no need whatsoever at any time to construct a cable like this.
Why would anyone need a cable like this is beyond me. If you use the proper things it will save you a lot of money in the long run... An inlet is not that expensive.
If you have an older house with a 60a service that your insurance company is yelling at you to replace, you can hit two birds with one stone and save a lot of money and do a full panel change.

 

[Footer]

NOW BACK ON TOPIC OF THE O.P.!:

As I mentioned before, been called to houses where people have attempted this. One actually caused the house to nearly burn down, another a guy electrocuted himself (on a farm). Not fun.
Bad Idea. Please follow the Codes, they're there for a reason! For your safety, and the safety of the property!

$20 part for a 5-15P edison inlet......

....There is no need whatsoever at any time to construct a cable like this.
Why would anyone need a cable like this is beyond me. If you use the proper things it will save you a lot of money in the long run... An inlet is not that expensive.....

Playing devils advocate again...
While walking through the hardware store joe blow sees the inlet and installs it in his house. He puts it on a separate circuit in his breaker panel. In order to use it he switches off the main breaker to the house, flips on the inlet panel, hooks up his generator, and lights up the house. After the power comes back on, he goes out, turns off the generator, unplugs the cable, turns off the breaker to the inlet connector and turns back on the main breaker.

You do avoid having to have a M to M cable laying around. However, does the risk of having a possible energized inlet connector that is connected to the grid 24/7/365 outweigh the Male to Male cable?

 

[fredthe]

OK, here's my solution for home use. Note that we rarely have extended power outages (more than a few hours,) but occasionally have extended (24 hour+) outages. I've only had 3 in the 12 years I've lived there (the first is when I bought the generator)

I've got a 30A 2-pole breaker, and a cable that's fitted with a plug for the generator. When it's clear power will be out for an extended period, I turn off the main breaker, open the panel and install the breaker, connect the cable, and connect the generator. When power is restored (informed by neighbors) I then remove the breaker and close up the panel before energizing the main breaker. No, it's not as safe as a transfer switch, but no make-male ford left lying around (yes, it's male to bare end, but the only thing it fits is the generator...)

Now, a friend of mine has extended outages a couple of times a year... we put in a transfer switch for him.

 

[Footer]

You don't really need to buy a transfer switch, according NEC. This piece of steel does the same thing as a person with some due diligence and a roll of tape.

 

[bishopthomas]

For the record I DID talk to them before cutting the end off (and contact my boss before as well), just did not tell all parts of the story in my earlier telling to keep it somewhat concise.

"Hey, it looks like you're using a male/male cable here when you really should have male/female. I'm sure there's a good reason why you made this cable, but give me five minutes and I will correct it for you, bringing your rig up to code." Any reasonable response would be, "Really, you wouldn't mind? Thanks, you're the best!" If your conversation didn't go like that (especially the beginning) then something else was up. If it did go like that then you are just playing the tough guy persona with us here, which is why you're not coming across as the good guy in this situation (even though you may have done the "right" thing in the end).

And I don't consider removing one end of a cable to be 'destruction of property' when I had the replacement parts on hand and immediately remedied the situation. It's not like I chopped the cable in half.

Sorry, but it doesn't matter what you think as you are not a judge. If it actually happened as you described (and you're not just pretending to be Mr. Tough Guy) then you ARE destroying private property and the sound co does have every right to press charges. Now, it probably wouldn't serve them well as they would be investigated and perhaps blacklisted due to non-compliant AC cabling, but why should you both go down?

There is no need whatsoever at any time to construct a cable like this.
Why would anyone need a cable like this is beyond me. If you use the proper things it will save you a lot of money in the long run... An inlet is not that expensive.

I couldn't agree more. I see no reason not to do things the proper way when you can just as easily do things correctly (and safely).

 

[MNicolai]

I destroy things where I work all the time. An XLR cable that doesn't work? I chop the ends off. A bad power cable with a missing ground pin? Chop the end(s) off. It addresses the problem immediately, making the work area safe for everyone, and if I don't get around to putting a new connector on right away, then next week when I'm in the shop and see it laying on the table, I know that I still need to finish fixing that.

If something only works just enough to be dangerous, I either immediately make it safe or break it enough that it cannot be used in a dangerous fashion.

I hadn't thought about energizing the grid earlier, but I imagine that makes for especially hazardous conditions for crews to work in. It also means that if the power line is down the middle of a road, now both ends of the severed line serve as potential points of extreme danger to bystanders while crews are still on their way to assess the damage.

Now if I was working in someone else's location and found dangerous cords, though I may hesitate to destroy them, I have no problem refusing to work until the problem is corrected. In a home OR at work. Whether you have the authority or not, you do still carry the responsibility to point out any and all pertinent hazards to those who may A) be unaware something is dangerous, or B) be deliberately violating safe working conditions.

When things go south and someone gets hurt, that's not a "Whoops" kind of thing; that's criminal neglect and manslaughter. Say all of the unkind things you want to about my mother and threaten to blacklist me, I won't have any hand in another tragedy like at The Station. If you're working conditions are unsafe and you refuse to improve them, I'll walk. Not only will I walk, but I'll make a lot of noise in the process. If I have to call fire marshals, building inspectors, or OSHA, I'll fulfill my responsibility to the industry and to mankind.

My arrogance applies especially to home residences, because anything I say there or any actions taken there are not protected by my employers' insurance umbrellas. If I am not crystal clear in the things that I say and advise, I could get sued all the way into bankruptcy. I'm not letting any well-intentioned suicide cable have those repercussions on my life.

 

[Footer]

Lets stay on topic people. This thread is not about cutting off connectors. If we are going to let threads like this go they have to stay on topic and not turn into flame wars.