I've always been concerned about the negative stigma that math in general seems to have. The "What, you mean we gotta do math?" attitude always concerns me. I'd rather hear them say "I've never done that before, but I'm willing to learn". What is so bad about learning and applying math? Why does it seem to have a negative stigma?
Eliminating Geometry from High School?
- Thread starterrochem
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I've always been concerned about the negative stigma that math in general seems to have. The "What, you mean we gotta do math?" attitude always concerns me. I'd rather hear them say "I've never done that before, but I'm willing to learn". What is so bad about learning and applying math? Why does it seem to have a negative stigma?
Because it requires some work and logical thought process. I love it when kids say they hate word problems, what do they think the world is about. Your boss isn't going to up equations for you, you have to take random information, sift through it and decide how to find the answer. Algrebra and Geometry are essentials tools in that toolbox.
Not to mention common sense. I've heard people complaining that the word problem wasn't right, and they chose the wrong numbers to figure it out. Instead of trying different numbers they just start asking people around them. Or they automatically assume they chose the wrong numbers or formula, and then get completely confused.
sadly I've done both of those things...but figured it out eventually
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And that is called learning. Taking the information, trying to find the answer, knowing whether it is correct and then how to fix it. These are critical skills for the real world and knuckleheads like the guy in the article is trying to stifle that.
When my son was in 4th grade they came up with a new state test. In the examples they gave three fractions that were to be put in order smallest to largest. Then as the second part of the question you were to write a brief constructed response, a term that makes my skin crawl, explaining how you did it. I went to the principal to complain. I did the problem, got it right but my method was different than their's. My question was would my explanation be marked wrong. She said she would hope not. I lost it, first there is no reason to explain how you do something in math if you get the right answer. She said they needed to make sure you understood the concept. I answered if you got the right answer then obviously you know how to do it. Second, if she can't tell me definitively whether my answer would be correct then it is a flawed test. Education has become so screwed up the kids are being exposed to tons of information and learning very little.
It was so memorable that I still recall a college calculus test where several of us had the exact same answer for one question but had all been marked as having the wrong answer. A couple of us went to our TA and asked them to explain what was wrong with our answer and logic. Their response was that our answer was actually more correct than the 'correct' answer but it wasn't the answer the professor wanted so even though we were right, we were wrong. That was 30 years ago so some of the issues aren't exactly new.
shiben
Well-Known Member
And that is what is being lost with all this standardized testing BS. When I was working in a scene shop on the side of my ME gig, I was one of the few people who could read a plan, use a square, understood that using a plumb line meant that something was vertical, got how the level worked, etc. Its amazing to me how many people came in "what are these two sides we dont know? on a sheet of 4x8 plywood... And its not because Im brilliant. In Geometry and other math classes, you learn a lot about how to look at a problem and figure out how to solve it. Thats what worries me. I was helping my brother with his geometry class (college level) and the questions were asking you to use a specific rule or theorum to solve a problem. Apparently students had not figured out that you need to look at the problem and figure out which one applies. Thats a little worrysome to me...
See, I think that you start out right, but I disagree with the second part. Just having the right answer isn't enough. You can come up with the right answer incorrectly and thus not have repeatable results. While I don't think that anyone should ever be graded on their process, I do believe that it is important for the instructor to see how you come to your results. A good teacher may be able to better direct the student to more reliable results if need be. This is especially important in tests where the school district may be able to spot trends that many students are having difficulty in a certain area.
With most standardized tests, they offer a few select answers to any given problem. A bright student can often surmize the answer without having to do the work, but that doesn't let the instructor know if they actually know how to do the problem correctly. Also, do we have to have an exact number? If I were to have a problem like 2+2, would 3.999 be accurate enough? As you get into machining tolerances, we probably wouldn't have any problems with a student not coming up with 4. However, if we know how the student arrived at their answer, it may help the teacher guide the student to a more precise answer.
I agree as you move up in math you need to show the process, that's what equations and proofs do. However, in simple math getting the right answer is enough. In algebra it is very easy to miss a negative or even double negatives which leads to the wrong answer. This is why you are taught to insert the answer back in the equation to see if you are indeed correct. Under no circumstances should you have to write an explanation of process.
RE: "show your work"
If you write down your answer and it's wrong, AND you've shown how you arrived at that answer, many/most teachers will give partial credit. They feel you shouldn't lose everything just because you made one minor error (like missing a minus sign in the third step of a ten step process).
Some see this as the downfall of civilization--no competitiveness, everyone's a winner, all receive a participation trophy.
Others see it as effective teaching, empathy, and encouraging.
Discuss.
And then there's these:
"One learns more from his failures than he does from his successes."
"If at first you don't succeed, rigging is not for you!"
If you just write down an answer and it's wrong, you lose. Zero. F.
If you write down your answer and it's wrong, AND you've shown how you arrived at that answer, many/most teachers will give partial credit. They feel you shouldn't lose everything just because you made one minor error (like missing a minus sign in the third step of a ten step process).
Some see this as the downfall of civilization--no competitiveness, everyone's a winner, all receive a participation trophy.
Others see it as effective teaching, empathy, and encouraging.
Discuss.
And then there's these:
"One learns more from his failures than he does from his successes."
"If at first you don't succeed, rigging is not for you!"
I don't disagree with partial credit for doing the procedure correctly and making a simple mistake, in higher math. In simple basic math, addition, substraction, multiplication, division and fractions, do the problem and get the right answer. I still agree to show your work, it is important to see what you are doing wrong but no partial credit during the basics.
And to that I also agree. We need to make sure that we teach the students the basics so that they have a firm foundation for the higher math. This is why I still think that the students need to memorize their times tables and learn how to estimate. These are the critical skills needed for the higher levels of math.
I almost put that in my post. In my area they teach times tables up through about the 6x and then leaves it to the kids to learn the rest. We made both our boys learn through 12x12. We also insisted they learn how to find combinations to make ten to increase adding in their head. My brother is incredible at estimating math. He is a VP of commercial lending and he can look at a project and figure debt service payments in his head.
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
This where I disagree there is good and bad about memory such as times tables sure it makes you faster but I know several people who couldn't write out how to get to 8 x 9
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Then they weren't taught the basics. They should have taught that multiplication is a short form for addition. 8+8+8+8+8+8+8+8+8=72. Then you memorized the table from 1x1 to 12x12. I showed a woman the other day how to mulitply by 11 quickly. She was 57 and never shown where 11x12=121 by taking the first and last then adding them. 12 becomes 1_2, to be the first and last digit, then add them for the third digit. 1+2=3, plug it into 1_2 and get 132. Put that on a standardized test and watch their head blow up. Or when factoring a large number add the digits to see if it breaks down to 9. If it does then it divisible by nine. Knowing that anything ending in 5 or 0 is divisible by 5. Knowing tricks doesn't mean that I don't understand the basics.
Sitting in rigging class and showing teacher why his match didn't check is satisfying and possible because of my HS math.
FACTplayers
Active Member
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
So what's the correct answer?
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What's the question? I can't see it for some reason.
FACTplayers
Active Member
The correct answer is clearly 14. The questions is:
"What is the answer? 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1-1+1+1+1+1+1+1x0 "
"What is the answer? 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1-1+1+1+1+1+1+1x0 "
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