Grounded receptacle mounting - pin up or down?

I thought we'd been one of the places, already, where the apparently never-ending conversation about whether you should mount your grounded receptacles "upside down" had happened -- putting the ground pin on top, rather than the bottom.

I'm fairly sure there's no NEC requirement either way -- though I'm sure we have some folks here who could quote chapter and verse... but I note that both large theatre buildings I've been working in built in the last 5 years are pin up on 5-15R's, and I note that many 5-15 right angle plugs/cords of recent manufacture -- and nearly all right angle plugs in larger ampacities -- expect the grounding pin on the top as well, if they are not adjustable.

I am a pin-up guy, for what seem to me to be good and sufficient reasons about shorting duration if something gets on the pins, but I would like to hear about it if anyone knows about *regulatory* findings on this point, NEC, NEMA, State or local.

There are no NEC rules on this.
Though as usual consult your local inspector if there's a permit involved.

I'm not certain that a controversy existed prior to Tik-Tok and all the "You've been doing it wrong" and "One easy trick the (insert cabal here) doesn't want you to know about."

I think it started shortly after the introduction of the grounded receptacles. Mike Holt's electrical industry forum has knock down drag out fights on the topic dating back to at least 2006. About every 2-3 years somebody makes a new post and after about 6 pages it gets locked with nothing being decided. I am not expecting we will reach a more conclusive answer here either.

The NEC committee posted a thing on their FB page soliciting queries about the new update, in-work.

I asked them to address this, even if it's "we explicitly don't care which way you mount them".

We'll see what happens.

If this is in a theatre, I've always followed the same historical assumptions as are done in homes where switched outlets are ground up.
So in a home bedroom, the one outlet that connects to a wall switch would have ground up.
In a theatre, we'd mount outlets that are on non-dim circuits ground up.

macsound said:

If this is in a theatre, I've always followed the same historical assumptions as are done in homes where switched outlets are ground up.
So in a home bedroom, the one outlet that connects to a wall switch would have ground up.
In a theatre, we'd mount outlets that are on non-dim circuits ground up.

Click to expand...

I'm envisioning a split switched receptacle, and a coping saw...

Problem solved...

n1ist said:

View attachment 25238
Problem solved...

Click to expand...

I have a quad box like this.

Be consistent through the building.

macsound said:

If this is in a theatre, I've always followed the same historical assumptions as are done in homes where switched outlets are ground up.
So in a home bedroom, the one outlet that connects to a wall switch would have ground up.
In a theatre, we'd mount outlets that are on non-dim circuits ground up.

Click to expand...

In 30+ years, I've never heard of this.

the one outlet that connects to a wall switch would have ground up

Click to expand...

and the other, non-swtitched would have to go the same, even though it's a lie, right? I've never seen opposing outlets on the same duplex.

Well now I have!

What I like to do is make a dot with Sharpie between hot & neutral, giving the outlet a "nose" if you will, to indicate a switched outlet.

I'll propably get in trouble for this. Those old enough to vote and serve one's country, but not old enough to drink, Divert your eyes!

n1ist said:

View attachment 25238
Problem solved...

Click to expand...

Love those! I just wish they weren't $40-ish. I also wish they were available in an outdoor rated version.

It was a huge deal in a few locations because the nondims weren’t labeled or obvious to a non house technician.
So orchestra lights, keyboards and hazers would get plugged into non-dims that the house techs would turn off right before house open, which was conveniently right while everyone else was at dinner.

When everyone would return, one mysterious row of orchestra lights or only the hazer on one side of the stage wouldn’t have power, but there were no work lights or time to trace the cable.
Magically the next day when everything was tested, there were no issues.

Don't you have different connections for dimmed and non dim?

macsound said:

It was a huge deal in a few locations because the nondims weren’t labeled or obvious to a non house technician.
So orchestra lights, keyboards and hazers would get plugged into non-dims that the house techs would turn off right before house open, which was conveniently right while everyone else was at dinner.

When everyone would return, one mysterious row of orchestra lights or only the hazer on one side of the stage wouldn’t have power, but there were no work lights or time to trace the cable.
Magically the next day when everything was tested, there were no issues.

Click to expand...

Colored receptacles for the specialty stuff.

This debate is right up there with "What will replace DMX next?"

It'll come up every couple years, there will be passionate discussion, and ultimately nothing will come of it. Statistically, there is not a compelling reason for one versus the other.

The probability that...some...conductive material slides down the face of a receptacle and miraculously contacts both the hot and neutral pins is unlikely -- and in the extremely rare chance that may happen, it's more likely to trip the circuit breaker from a dead short than produce a fire or shock someone. For all intents and purposes, it's an academic question in search of a problem. Regardless of whatever arguments could be made for one orientation than the other, I would hope the NFPA and NEC committees are more focused on proven life safety risks or upcoming trends in technology and applications that have potential for risks.

Well, I would say we have that first answer: sACN/E.131, as Ethernet PHYs come down even further in price.

As for "trip the breaker from a dead short", it's my loose understanding that that's less likely than you would expect, with the sort of breakers usually used on 15/20A branch circuits; the line impedance and resistance of the arc is high enough that it won't necessarily trip a standard breaker. That's why AFCIs happened, I think.

I must say, though, that even as a pin-upster, I find the argument someone made on the parallel thread on FB this week somewhat compelling: with the pin up, someone's *more likely* to inadvertently get their fingers across L-N while pulling the plug from the wall with a proper grip, assuming the same "not plugged in all the way" condition.

Damn, I hate being wrong.

almorton said:

Don't you have different connections for dimmed and non dim?

Click to expand...

Al, that would make waaaay too much sense. Come on, lad, we're Americans!

MNicolai said:

This debate is right up there with "What will replace DMX next?"

It'll come up every couple years, there will be passionate discussion, and ultimately nothing will come of it. Statistically, there is not a compelling reason for one versus the other.

The probability that...some...conductive material slides down the face of a receptacle and miraculously contacts both the hot and neutral pins is unlikely -- and in the extremely rare chance that may happen, it's more likely to trip the circuit breaker from a dead short than produce a fire or shock someone. For all intents and purposes, it's an academic question in search of a problem. Regardless of whatever arguments could be made for one orientation than the other, I would hope the NFPA and NEC committees are more focused on proven life safety risks or upcoming trends in technology and applications that have potential for risks.

Click to expand...

The NFPA will focus on things that mitigate insurance claims. The things that cost insurers lots of money tend to be Very Bad Things, so we don't want them happening, usually. I think steel paper clips falling off the desk present too little statistical risk for them to make a call. Subject to change after the TakTolk Paperclip Challenge...